Has anyone ever seen much less tested this round?
https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Handgun/Defender/S10MMPDB
It kinda checks all my boxes except ?available?. ;D
https://www.10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/winchester-defender-pdx1-180gr-jhp/msg84902/#msg84902
My Googlefu must be weak, thanks!
Pity it didn?t quite make 1,200fps out of a G20.
Hard to beat a Gold Dot. Underwood loads a 180gr at an advertised 1300fps. Perhaps that suits your needs and requirements.
If I?m going to carry a boutique load then I?ll just carry my own handloads. My load with the 180gr Gold Dot over BE-86 hits 1,250 from my 1911 and 1,205 out of my 3? GP-100. I?d really like to see Speer load the 180gr GD to an honest 1,200fps as that seems to be my sweet spot for controllability.
The Winchester load qualifies as ?purt-near?.
Unfortunately right now they are all unobtainium so I guess it?s a moot point.
I decided to necro-post on my thread. I found a local fun-store with the 180gr Bonded Defender in stock @$38/20 and purchased a couple boxes. Accuracy seems good, they function thru my 5? 1911 and as an added bonus the 3? revolver doesn?t pull the bullets with recoil.
At nearly $2 each I fired three out of each gun over my chrono, the 5? hit 1240fps and the 3? GP was 1180fps. These may well become the answer to ?what?s in your chamber!?.
This is real 10 mm ammo was
defiantly hotter than Winchester Silvertips and Underwood Delta Elite load at 1240 fps.
Buds has them for $29.00, but is still substantially higher than Underwood?s, regardless, I still wouldn?t mind having a few boxes on hand
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product_info.php/products_id/107557/winchester+s10mmmpdb+defender+10mm+auto+180gr+bonded+jacket+hollow+point+20rd+box
Another look at it..
https://www.10mm-firearms.com/index.php?topic=9209.0
Quote from: sgtbones on November 28 2022 05:52:10 PM MST
This is real 10 mm ammo was
defiantly hotter than Winchester Silvertips and Underwood Delta Elite load at 1240 fps.
Not many 10mm ammo match the original Norma loadings ;
200gr JTC @ 1200 fps 635 Ft/Lbs Norma Ref #11001
170gr JHP @ 1300 fps 636 Ft/Lbs Norma Ref #11002
165gr JHP @ 1400 fps 719 Ft/Lbs Norma Ref #11002
BUT... Still have boxes of and carry the OLD Silvertips.... def a good very warm round @ 1250+ ( and better than the newer S tips which run about 50fps slower )
It's still a good carry round and I find it allows a good second shot on target which to me is important.
Has anyone chronographed the original Norma ammo recently?
This ammo, and the 10mm was introduced about the same time affordable home chronographs were coming into vogue. I picked up my first Oehler in 1980. I didn't start shooting 10mm until 2012.
I recall reading some posts or articles about the Norma factory loads where, as with much of the 'advertised velocities' we see, didn't quite get there. In fact, the ammo was pretty much on par with much of the 'boutique' ammo we have today. Very hot but wasn't up to the numbers that were advertised.
I've noticed that the 5 inch barrels shoot ammo much faster than the 4 or 4 1/2 inch barrels. That extra bit of barrel seems to make a significant difference in 10mm.
After a short while NORMA dialed down the velocities somewhat...
The original delivered ammo to D&D was running 1260 fps which exceeded the parameters.
Some of the later test by actual users was under for the 200 FMJ.
data some have tested early on...
200gr FMJ @ 1200fps This load averages about 1130 fps from my Glock 20.
Glock 29 3.78? 1129 fps tested by NordicG3K At BrenTen
S&W1006 5.0? 1171 fps tested by NordicG3K At BrenTen
S&W 610 6.5? 1245 fps tested by NordicG3K At BrenTen
T/C 14? 1287 fps tested by NordicG3K At BrenTen
170gr JHP @ 1300fps.
Glock 29 3.78? 1209 fps tested by NordicG3K At BrenTen
S&W1006 5.0? 1237 fps tested by NordicG3K At BrenTen
S&W 610 6.5? 1343 fps tested by NordicG3K At BrenTen
T/C 14? 1423 fps tested by NordicG3K At BrenTen
I like the penetration I saw plus the way the bullet held up and it is a Ranger talon.
Thanks Shadow
That's pretty much what I remember..
Barrel length does make some difference.
Last time working with the 200gr HAP bullet, I was able to get 1159 fps avg 28 fps spread with a G20SF and 13.5grs AA#9. And that was right on the ragged edge for pressure. I have not been able to exceed that safely.
Always wondered why Western Powders never included ENFORCER in their 10mm data..
The 200 FMJ is a slightly shorter bullet than the 200 JHP and my be closer to the length of the 180 grain JHP.
One of the things I have been liking about BE-86 is that 8.3 grains will make 1225 fps safely with the Speer 200 grain Gold Dot in my test from the S&W 1006 5" and even others that tested had good numbers.
8.4 makes 1237 fps from my S&W 1006 5" barrel.
The Turkey's Opinion has a video posted on September 11, 2022 that shows
3.8" XDM Elite - 1146 fps
5" Colt Delta Elite - 1213 fps