I have owned all four for a while now and put them all through the lightest weight to heaviest weight ammo, plus cream-puff to nuclear levels of ammo. I have always wanted to throw a review together and see where they settled out based on a 1-4 scale ranking for chamber support, feeding, trigger, ease of cleaning, sights, accuracy, felt recoil and grip. I think that's about it since capacity will always go to the EAA double-stack pistols.
Chamber Support
1- Dan Wesson Razorback 1911 confirmed from various pre/post fired brass at different levels
2- S&W 1006 confirmed the same way
3- EAA Hunter confirmed the same way. The Match is almost identical but Hunter splits the hair here.
4- EAA Match confirmed the same way.
Feeding
1- S&W 1006 because it just has never had any ammo issue even with a full mag of Hardcast 220's.
2- EAA Match has always been great but would have a little issue with a full mag of 220's.
3- EAA Hunter is really about a tie with Match but a full mag of 220's also same issue.
4- Dan Wesson Razorback is a little sensitive to the 220's and when I load a single round it can hang up.
Trigger
1- Dan Wesson Razorback 1911 trigger is just rock solid and so smooth.
2- EAA Match goes here probably from being used more than the Hunter but both are great.
3- EAA Hunter which if I shot it more would be tied with the Match.
4- S&W 1006 is okay in SA but not very fluid and DA is just crazy!
Ease Of Cleaning
1- EAA Match is just stupid simple and easy to take down with so few parts or tricks.
2- EAA Hunter should be tied with the Match really due to same basic strip.
3- Dan Wesson Razorback has more pieces and a little more to putting it all back together.
4- S&W 1006 with the almost dangerous recoil spring/guide rod and weird way of putting the slide back on make this very fitting!
Sights
1- S&W 1006 is pretty good with the factory but adding the Dawson fiber front and LPA adjustable rear make it a win/win.
2- Dan Wesson Razorback all black fixed sights have been just fine from day one and I never plan on changing them.
3- EAA Hunter has the Super Sight which if you do the work to clean for Loctite works very well and I like adjustable.
4- EAA Match has a nice low-profile adjustable that works very good but I am on my second one already!
Accuracy
1- Dan Wesson Razorback is just stupid accurate and my very first shot with it was a dead center hit. It's splitting hairs with the EAA pieces but for some reason just gives a tad better results usually.
2- EAA Match is right there with the Razorback to where you can't tell much of a difference and I think the grip is the main reason.
3- EAA Hunter is with the two above but not having the finger groove Hogues on it like the Match lessen the grip.
4- S&W 1006 fits here mainly because the trigger is so hard to work with. If you shoot it for a while every shot you get better and better and then you are done.
Felt Recoil
1- S&W 1006 with the Hogue grip makes even the hottest stuff seem kind of lame.
2- EAA Hunter with the long slide is about tied with the 1006 but no rubber there to help even more.
3- EAA Match with the Hogue finger groove grips and weight is not far behind 1 and 2.
4- Dan Wesson Razorback seems a little light in the front and I get much more muzzle rise upwards on shots.
Grip
1- EAA Match with Hogue finger groove is the best feel of ANY pistol or revolver I have ever shot or had my hands on period!
2- EAA Hunter has the same CZ type grip feel like the Match but the checkering gets to the hand more and no finger groove grips.
3- Dan Wesson Razorback with Pearce finger grooves is very nice but not a CZ feel.
4- S&W 1006 with Hogue grip is still kind of beefy especially front to back kind of like a Glock.
Total it all up:
EAA Match 19
Dan Wesson Razorback 19
S&W 1006 21
EAA Hunter 21
1st EAA Match letting capacity be the tie-breaker
2nd Dan Wesson Razorback
3rd S&W 1006
4th EAA Hunter which is hard to believe but...
Question: Does Hogue make a finger groove grip for the Witness now or are you using the boil in water technique to make it fit?
I just pulled it into place and had my Wife start the last screw as I held it. It was a PITA but the grip with it on is second to none!
Quote from: Intercooler on June 10 2013 08:25:32 PM MDT
I just pulled it into place and had my Wife start the last screw as I held it. It was a PITA but the grip with it on is second to none!
You have a pic? I bought one about 7 years ago but I never could get it right. Perhaps I will order a new one if it looks OK.
Although I really like he way the new 2012 and newer Witness grip looks.
All four
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/577138_435624226475615_1786226324_n.jpg)
Match
(http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/425410_341570575880981_814883523_n.jpg)
http://www.amazon.com/Monogrip-Wraparound-Grooves-Witness-Springf/dp/B002A6IVOY/ref=sr_1_sc_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1339293955&sr=8-3-spell
I really like it. I see a few suppliers have them on Amazon, and Hogue sells them for only a few bucks more at $24.95.
Intercooler, Nice consensus on those 4 guns...I'm partial to the S&W 1006 with the factory adjustable sights probably because I haven't shot the others! I bet the Bren Ten will shoot very nice and similar to the EAA's, I am putting some rounds together so I can do a little shooting with it next time out...
One of the real nice S&W is the DOA, 1086 & 1046, they have a totally different feel with a smooth pull all the way through to cock and release the hammer that is in a partially cocked state. :D
I like the way the match looks. About 8 years ago, I was camping with my daughter who was 6 years old at the time. I slept with the Witness (my first one I ever owned) at my side in my sleeping bag. My daughter had an accident while sleeping and the pee soaked my sleeping bag. :o Not sure if it was the dye in the holster or if something in human urine turns wonder finish black, but it was stained black all over :o
I sent it back to EAA and they couldn't do anything for it. So, I used a dremel tool with a polishing wheel and compound, and over a couple weeks I slowly removed the Wonderfinish and shined that sucker up into a mirror stainless finish. It looked NICE. I even did the slide. I bought the walnut grips for it and it looked like a whole new gun. In fact it looked like the Witness Stock years before the Stock even came out. Now, I'm not saying they stole my idea, but I sold the gun to someone I regret selling it to. A few years later, the Stock came out. >:D Probably just a coincidence.
I fell in love with the 1006 when I got her a few months ago. If I only knew.
That's a great review!
Regarding feeding, if someone never intended to shoot any bullet weight over 180 grains does the order change?
I think about another EAA piece all the time. The Pro would be the next obviuos choice except the straight cut barrel. Also can't locate the trigger pull numbers.
Lighter weights the 1006 is still tops. The other three I would term them all a tie for second.
Good to hear. I was afraid the RZ-10 would stay at the bottom, but it sounds like as long as someone isn't running super-heavy-weights through it it pretty much holds its own.
Camping is what did in the wonder finish on my Witness too Grim Reaper.
I was at a scout camp, and of course brought my "Bear Repellant" along. Normally, at home, the gun rode in the holster about 15 hours a day, then lived in the safe from bedtime until I was up, showered and ready to walk out the door the next day. I didn't realize it at the time, but this 8-9 hours a day of breathing time was badly needed.
At the camp, the gun never left the holster, for four days. I would take it off my belt at night, but since I didn't have a gun vault there it would go in the corner of the tent by my head still in the holster. And it was hot so I was sweating buckets.
I get home and start stripping down for a shower. When the gun came out of the holster, it had rusted through the wonder finish on the side that was against my body. There was even some surface pitting.
Like Reaper, my first step was to buff the rust out. I didn't polish the hole gun, just the areas that had rusted. But that left some interesting wear marks on the gun, plus the pits. About a year later I had the Para up and running, so I gave the witness a sandblasting, park, and cerakote.
Looks like new now:
(http://fellingfamily.net/images/witnessComplete.jpg)
Good review IC. I would love to see out here in the west sometime and let you shoot my Para. See how you think a double stack 1911 measures up against the Match. FTW, my para holds 17+1, so assuming the same tie, the double stack 1911 would have the edge :D
Quote from: sqlbullet on June 11 2013 09:24:59 AM MDT
Camping is what did in the wonder finish on my Witness too Grim Reaper.
I was at a scout camp, and of course brought my "Bear Repellant" along. Normally, at home, the gun rode in the holster about 15 hours a day, then lived in the safe from bedtime until I was up, showered and ready to walk out the door the next day. I didn't realize it at the time, but this 8-9 hours a day of breathing time was badly needed.
At the camp, the gun never left the holster, for four days. I would take it off my belt at night, but since I didn't have a gun vault there it would go in the corner of the tent by my head still in the holster. And it was hot so I was sweating buckets.
I get home and start stripping down for a shower. When the gun came out of the holster, it had rusted through the wonder finish on the side that was against my body. There was even some surface pitting.
Like Reaper, my first step was to buff the rust out. I didn't polish the hole gun, just the areas that had rusted. But that left some interesting wear marks on the gun, plus the pits. About a year later I had the Para up and running, so I gave the witness a sandblasting, park, and cerakote.
Looks like new now:
(http://fellingfamily.net/images/witnessComplete.jpg)
That looks great. Perhaps you could elaborate on the steps you took to achieve that look. I have had some issues with wonderfinish guns rusting and pitting, especially after outside use on rugged trips and it looks like you found a nice way to clean them up and give them a second life. I have a wonderfinish frame sitting in the safe and a blued slide not getting any use. A little work and I could have one put together like yours. My blued slides have never rusted. Cant say the same for wonderfinish. I found myself coating the wonderfinish in gun oil, but then realized that the deer could probably smell me a mile away. :))
I didn't know how the numbers would pan out until the end. All of them are so close none are worth discounting. I think I will add a full length guide rod to the RZ and maybe work the feed a little more. Might make it even better!
IMO the RZ-10 is just such a fine looking firearm. 8)
The guide rod could add weight in the right area. I'm trying to get Spalted Maple grips for it and I will take another picture. It will be drool then!
Trying the full length guide rod sounds like a really good idea!
I need some help though. Is this the correct type or just makes it easier for take-down? Any certain style better?
http://www.egwguns.com/stainless-steel-guide-rods/1911-stainless-steel-5-guide-rods/
A lot of the 1911 talk is over my head. :-[ Hopefully one of the 1911 gurus can throw out some insight for ya. Plus then I'll probably learn something too. 8)
IC, can you do a recap on the barrel lengths for future reference?
Every time you chronograph a load I have to look up barrel lengths for the different guns you use. :P
EAA Match 4.75"
S&W 1006 5"
Dan Wesson Razorback 5"
EAA Hunter 6"
Thanks..
While I don't shoot 220 grain cast in my Razorback, I do run lighter cast loads. I suggest getting a Lee Factory Crimp Die. It not only puts on a nice crimp, It runs the loaded round through a carbide sizer ring in case seating the bullet in may have caused a slight bulge at the neck end. Using the FCD, my Razorback has eaten any load I ever reloaded with ease.
Quote from: Grim Reaper on June 11 2013 10:14:31 AM MDT
Quote from: sqlbullet on June 11 2013 09:24:59 AM MDT
Camping is what did in the wonder finish on my Witness too Grim Reaper.
I was at a scout camp, and of course brought my "Bear Repellant" along. Normally, at home, the gun rode in the holster about 15 hours a day, then lived in the safe from bedtime until I was up, showered and ready to walk out the door the next day. I didn't realize it at the time, but this 8-9 hours a day of breathing time was badly needed.
At the camp, the gun never left the holster, for four days. I would take it off my belt at night, but since I didn't have a gun vault there it would go in the corner of the tent by my head still in the holster. And it was hot so I was sweating buckets.
I get home and start stripping down for a shower. When the gun came out of the holster, it had rusted through the wonder finish on the side that was against my body. There was even some surface pitting.
Like Reaper, my first step was to buff the rust out. I didn't polish the hole gun, just the areas that had rusted. But that left some interesting wear marks on the gun, plus the pits. About a year later I had the Para up and running, so I gave the witness a sandblasting, park, and cerakote.
Looks like new now:
(http://fellingfamily.net/images/witnessComplete.jpg)
That looks great. Perhaps you could elaborate on the steps you took to achieve that look. I have had some issues with wonderfinish guns rusting and pitting, especially after outside use on rugged trips and it looks like you found a nice way to clean them up and give them a second life. I have a wonderfinish frame sitting in the safe and a blued slide not getting any use. A little work and I could have one put together like yours. My blued slides have never rusted. Cant say the same for wonderfinish. I found myself coating the wonderfinish in gun oil, but then realized that the deer could probably smell me a mile away. :))
http://10mm-firearms.com/gunsmithing/parkerizing-advice/
I detailed the whole thing in this thread.
If you have a compressor, you are probably looking at about $100 of supplies as I recall.
Nice little report IC
Quote from: Intercooler on June 10 2013 08:25:32 PM MDT
I just pulled it into place and had my Wife start the last screw as I held it. It was a PITA but the grip with it on is second to none!
I used a Hair Dryer to warm mine up
Are the Backing Plates still too thick and need sanding to free-up the inside of Mag Well ?
And then, once I did all that work, the Grip was too fat for my hand, so I sold the Grip
Live and learn
I sanded the inside pads on mine because the mag was sticky going in.
I have owned 10mm in S&W 1006 & 1086, EAA Wonder with adjustable rear sight, 2 Colt DE's, and DW BTRZ10 below. From 25 yards out to 100 yards the RZ is crazy accurate and most accurate of the bunch, with EEA a close second but never shot beyond 50 yards. As for 1006 & 1086 I discovered something I had not known and that is I can't shoot a 3rd gen S&W, be it 9mm, 40, or 10mm, a couple LEO friends and I decided it was just the grip shape and angle because no matter which of the 3 calibers (their duty guns or my guns) I was lucky to hit the 4'x8' back board the targets were on. The Colt DE's are/were (sold blued one) only shot self-defense style with 21' max range and 10 second or less per mag or 5 seconds per two rounds on multi targets, but it has to be on 6" paper plate is all, but usually only about 4" groups. A friend has shot my DW BTRZ out to 100 yards after shooting about 1" or so group (all hole were touching in tight circle group) at 25 yards and the 12" steel plate he hit every shot, out shooting another friend shooting with IIRC a 686 S&W 6.5" revolver.
The reason I don't own a Witness, Match or Hunter now is the poor service and warranty by EAA and as long as EAA importing the Tanfoglio's I'll not buy another. My problem was blemish on slide and 15 round magazines that would not hold more the 11 to 12 rounds, EAA refused to take care of either problem.
Here is BTRZ001 custom gun by Keith at DW that was my Christmas '11 present to me. It has a twin I ordered last summer a BTRZ002 only in 38 Super that was on his bench when they had the fire, that was going to be my '12 Christmas present and now my Birthday (68) this month. I'm getting a little jittery waiting to get the call from him for $$$ and FFL I bet that they will need again.
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x245/oldnavy6393/DSC_0083.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/oldnavy6393/media/DSC_0083.jpg.html)
Grip's by Ryan Payne aka Sarge.
Well your 1006 3rd generation models were LEO designed. Heavy D/A meaty design. I carried the 5906,same result. Can't polish a turd.
Quote from: pacapcop on July 04 2013 10:30:22 PM MDT
Well your 1006 3rd generation models were LEO designed. Heavy D/A meaty design. I carried the 5906,same result. Can't polish a turd.
Actually, on Mythbusters they DID successfully polish a turd!
GREAT Comparison, I have been longing for another 10mm lately...
IMO we are now in somewhat of a renaissance for 10mm Ammo, I
picked up around 1,000 rounds of assorted Ball, JHP, of varying levels
of power. Underwood and Freedom make up the bulk of it, but I also
have around 140 rounds of the new SIG Elite self defense ammo, it is
180gr at 1250 FPS rated! Much more OOMPH than the Freedom, which
is listed as 1120 FPS in 180gr. The Underwood, that is a whole new ball
game, 1350 in the 180 size :o All I have shot so far is the Glock 20C
and with my existing Buffalo Bore 220gr, which is why I am looking at
the heavier predecessors of the G20... Namely the mighty S&W 1006
and the Tanfoglio Witness HUnter 6" Might as well go all out, the 10mm
likes long barrels and heavyweight frames. If anyone can direct me to
modifications for the G20 which will add stability and weight, I would be
very happy!
Out of those four I only have the Hunter left, but did pick up a Limited and Limited Pro after selling my Match and Razorback.
With the introduction of the Sig Sauer P220, it's the replacement piece for the 1006. The fact S&W isn't making parts for them anymore makes it a no-brainer where to spend that money at today.
I don't think I will ever own another 1911 and especially in 10mm. The Witness lineup offers everything in Steel that someone could want and it's more robust plus handles the ammo selections better.
Quote from: Intercooler on June 10 2013 08:01:17 PM MDT
Accuracy
1- Dan Wesson Razorback is just stupid accurate and my very first shot with it was a dead center hit. It's splitting hairs with the EAA pieces but for some reason just gives a tad better results usually.
I tend to agree with that....
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Gandog56/dwgroup.jpg)