I want to start loading my own 10's, and can't justify a $500+ setup, so I'd like to ask if anyone uses, or started out using, a single stage press. For now, I'd like to pretend I won't start shooting so much that I'll need to sell my single stage and graduate to a progressive press, so just play along with me on that for now please. We can make fun of my lack of foresight in a few months when I sell it to step up to a progressive. ;D
It's probably a good idea for me to learn the basics of cartridge reloading first though correct? So what is a good book or combo of good books that starts out an old shell reloader like me down the cartridge path? Any recommendations of a good primer/s? I'm sure eventually I'll graduate to my other calibers but for now I'm only interested in reloading 10. Thanks.
Have you bought anything toward handloading yet, or are you still in a 100% research phase?
started out that way...Still use it. I bought a RCBS kit, but if someone is starting out and asks me today...Get a Lee Anniversary kit ($101.50 from factory sales) and a set of lee 10mm dies (32.88 same source)
You will recoup your costs very quickly, probably in the first 1000 rounds.
And the Lee stuff may not be as smooth as the others, but it loads just fine. I have a friend with that exact set up that is closing in on 30,000 rounds of various calibers.
Well I usually recommend the RCBS Rockchucker starter kit, most of the time it can be found for $300 or less and RCBS usually has a $50 rebate for a $300 purchase. http://www.midwayusa.com/product/937051/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-master-single-stage-press-kit (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/937051/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-master-single-stage-press-kit)
The kit has a good balance beam scale, powder drop, great manual among other all the other things to get you started. Then all you need are a set of dies for each caliber you want to load for. BTW, all of the 7/8" threaded dies will work with any make press... ;)
Most of the makes offer great warranty.
red - yes I am still in research - no equipment just components.
bullet - I was looking at the Lee anniversary pretty hard (even mentioned it in my intro post). Thanks for the confirmation
shadow - I'll look at that kit too. I have the allowance for it just want to be frugal as possible without buying junk.
Thanks for the help guys, I'll update (and ask more questions of course) as I proceed.
The Lee kit is good, and worth every penny. The Rock Chucker kit is excellent, and face it, you'll probably own a RC press at some point in your life if you continue to handload (I have a few). You can also upgrade the RC later to a fully functional progressive press for a LOT less money than a full progressive setup (except for Lee). I have one (Piggy Back indexing) I've been using for over 20 years, and it runs side by side with the Dillon and others. The RC press will also accept 1-1/4" dies, in case you get the urge to load up some .50 BMG, 600 Nitro, or the likes.
As I was poking around investigating all the different reloading "KITS" available, I find all of them lacking! Therefore I did some research on what IN MY OPINION I would want as a beginning handloading setup and came up with a much more comprehensive selection of items, that if they leave you wanting, probably won't leave you wanting much. Plus, ALL of it can be had at great prices through amazon.com without any shipping cost. Only 4 items are not immediately in stock but okay to backorder. Total cost comes to $409.38. All that would be required beyond this is: brass, bullets, powder, and primers.
Here's the "kit" I came up with (self explanatory pics will be shown below the list):
Lee Reloader Press $38.09
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SF4X5I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SF4X5I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
http://leeprecision.com/reloader-press.html (http://leeprecision.com/reloader-press.html)
Lee Carbide 4 Die Set $54.69
This die set adds (over what standard 3-die sets normally do) a dedicated factory crimp die and shell holder and powder measure with charge table!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000O7D7TU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_9?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A30DGGRQPDAP9Y (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000O7D7TU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_9?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A30DGGRQPDAP9Y)
http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/4-die-set-pistol/ (http://leeprecision.com/reloading-dies/hand-gun-dies/4-die-set-pistol/)
Lee ERGO-Primer handheld priming tool $32.99
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0075LKW78/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0075LKW78/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
http://leeprecision.com/ergo-prime.html (http://leeprecision.com/ergo-prime.html)
Lee Shell Holder #19 $5.29
This shell holder is required for the Lee ERGO-Primer handprimer for 10mm Auto. This shell holder will NOT work in the press.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SF2XOQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_10?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002SF2XOQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_10?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
http://leeprecision.com/shell-holder-19.html (http://leeprecision.com/shell-holder-19.html)
Hornady Lock-N-Load Quick Trickle powder dispenser $89.99
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007TNXB7U/ref=ox_sc_act_title_8?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007TNXB7U/ref=ox_sc_act_title_8?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Quick-Trickle/ (http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Quick-Trickle/)
Hornady Electronic Scale (1500 grain capacity) $34.12
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KZ7JLW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001KZ7JLW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_6?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
http://www.hornady.com/store/GS-1500-Grain-Electronic-Scale/ (http://www.hornady.com/store/GS-1500-Grain-Electronic-Scale/)
RCBS Model 502 Beam Reloading Scale $76.32
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018E075A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0018E075A/ref=ox_sc_act_title_7?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=3007&route=C08J154 (https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=3007&route=C08J154)
Lee Powder Funnel $5.69
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NOUEUO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NOUEUO/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
http://leeprecision.com/powder-funnel.html (http://leeprecision.com/powder-funnel.html)
RCBS Universal Case Loading Block $13.97
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013RA5DQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0013RA5DQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=3718&route=C15J170 (https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/MainServlet?storeId=webconnect&catalogId=webconnect&langId=en_US&action=ProductDisplay&screenlabel=index&productId=3718&route=C15J170)
Neiko Stainless Steel 6-Inch Digital Caliper $16.99
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GSLKIW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2ZSTDEXO9VTZF (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000GSLKIW/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A2ZSTDEXO9VTZF)
Can't find manufactuer's website.
Lyman Case Prep Multi-Tool $23.89
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004MCMCYE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004MCMCYE/ref=ox_sc_act_title_3?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
Couldn't locate on manufacturer's website.
Frankford Arsenal Quick-N-Ez Impact (Kinetic) Bullet Puller $17.35
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B7ZB4Q/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001B7ZB4Q/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER)
http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/frankford-arsenal/catalog.asp?ShowLarge=Quick-N-EZ-Impact-Bullet-Puller (http://www.battenfeldtechnologies.com/frankford-arsenal/catalog.asp?ShowLarge=Quick-N-EZ-Impact-Bullet-Puller)
If you can swing it, the only other items I would add to the list are: Reloading Manual, Powder Measure with Stand/Bench Mount, Tumbler, and Chronograph. I consider a reloading manual (or a few) to be a necessity. I did not list a reloading manual because they vary greatly in price and would prefer to leave that up to you. I personally most highly recommend Hornady and Speer reloading manuals. Beyond those two there are still plenty of excellent choices available.
Notice the items you virtually never see in a kit that I've included above, some of which make sense to purchase separately, while others not. These items include: Die Set, Shell Holder, Bullet Puller, Digital or Dial Caliper, Digital Scale, and Powder Trickler. Get rid of all of that from what I brought up to purchase above, and the cost comes down to ~$280.00 to which you would have to add most of the other stuff anyway.
A couple things I'ld like to note; for one, it will cost you more money, but you can go with an all out powder measure if you want (most don't come with a stand but offer one optionally, so don't forget to buy a stand if need be). Also, the RCBS #505 scale would be a little step up from the #502 I listed, but the #505 will run ya another $20 or so. Keep in mind about the Amazon.com links for each product; There are lots of user reviews to back up (or not) those products that can be looked over. My main goal here was to create a "kit" that was as inexpensive as reasonably possible, but that would not leave you immediately wanting (virtually needing) more. Certainly it could be tweaked as anyone saw fit for themselves. But sticking to a strictly single-stage type setup, I felt what I listed would give someone an honest realistic start to handloading. Other's opinions may vary.
(http://leeprecision.com/images/P/p-786.jpg)
(http://leeprecision.com/userfiles/images/4DIETSET.jpg)
(http://leeprecision.com/images/P/90250_2.jpg)
(http://leeprecision.com/images/P/p-789.jpg)
(http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/alt1/428/428274.jpg)
(http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/primary/438/438260.jpg)
(http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/primary/605/605320.jpg)
(http://leeprecision.com/images/P/p-298.jpg)
(https://shop.rcbs.com/WebConnect/images/rcbs/item/FullA/09452.jpg)
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dSSGlRkixek/UYz_8P_OZOI/AAAAAAAAAE4/UmrxFa3X66s/s1600/8719016306_370c55af40_z.jpg)
(http://www.dhguns.com/images/library/brs/zoom/0582-0424.jpg)
(http://images1.opticsplanet.com/365-240-ffffff/opplanet-frankford-arsenal-sudden-impact-bullet-puller-836017.jpg)
I started with the RCBS kit that Shadow mentions. I actually went to the store to buy the Lee anniversary kit, but they were out. So rather than wait and save my pennies, I sprang for the more expensive kit.
And, if you are certain you are going to stick with reloading, you will be glad you have a Rock Chucker kit. But, even with the rebate it is 2.5 times the money the Lee kit is. So if you are iffy at all on how much you are going to reload, better to save you pennies.
Regarding the build your own package that Redline outlines...This isn't a bad way to go if you have the experience to know what you want. If all my stuff was stolen or somehow destroyed and I was starting over, I would probably go piecemeal as well. But, I have been loading for a good many years now and know what works for me.
I will comment on the $38 lee Reloader Press. Most used press I own. I bought it to set up and run cast bullets through for sizing. I use it more than any other press. I have it mounted to a section of 1X4, and can take it about anywhere, clamp it to something solid and start cranking out ammo. Right now, as I am displaced from my home during remodel, it is my only press. It would be awesome if Lee would put together a $65 economy starter kit with this press.
I will also comment that I personally don't think a reloading set-up is complete without a beam scale. The RCBS 5-0-5 is great, the Lee scale is OK....very good if you consider the price. I can live without my digital scale, but not my beam scale.
Some things are not measured by price point alone! Durability, leverage, quality and repeatable accuracy are all related when it comes to handloading. I will say my most used press is the RCBS Jr. for its feedback with a lighter touch and feel when seating and crimping.
I have trusted my balance beam scale for over 30+ years, it remains accurate and repeatable. I can not say that about that digital scale I have, although I know its faults (drifts and only reads to the even tenths of a grain) and can work with them.
When you start adding up things, consider what comes in the kits, that RCBS manual has a wealth of knowledge to answer most any issues and guide you to answers, the ballistic tables in the rear of the book are useful if you are interested in longer range shots. I will say that Lyman manuals are also very good because they cover a wide assortment of bullets construction/weights with many powders for load comparisons for load development using different components such as different make bullets.
You can not have too many good sources of loading data, older publications or newer. I would suggest people get any powder manufactures written pamphlets, cut, copy, paste, downloads and pdf files to bolster their data bases.
Complete concur that you can't have too much reloading data. Especially covet data that lists the pressure, and barrel length of the test gun.
Just another option for you to look at: Lee Classic Turret. It is a sturdy press and is faster than a single stage (but can be used like one if so desired). I have used it to load 9mm, 10mm, 357 mag., 223, and 300 RUM. (Still waiting on my 44 mag dies!)
This kit + a good scale is all you need: ($240 for press, carbide dies, priming setup, pro auto-disk powder measure, etc.)
https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=190&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41 (https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=630&category_id=190&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=41)
Again, I would spend the $15 extra and get the PRO-auto disk with this setup. It is a better measure than the regular auto-disk.
This is a good writeup:
http://www.realguns.com/archives/122.htm (http://www.realguns.com/archives/122.htm)
Things I really like about this press:
1. Ease of changing between multiple calibers. The turrets are cheap (~$11) and easy to swap, the priming system takes literally 15 seconds to switch between large/small. I load five different cartridges so this was important to me. The auto disk system gives reproducible results due to the fixed cavities. I timed myself and I can completely switch calibers including switching over the powder measure (emptying, changing disks, refilling with new powder) in under three minutes. This press also handles the rather large 300 RUM cartridge with ease.
2. 99%+ of my primers end up in the catch tube instead of on the floor. This is a big deal to me since I live in an apartment and have a toddler who likes to eat things (like primers!)
3. It is easy for me to set up and put away. Again, I don't have a dedicated reloading room so I have to bring it out and clamp it to whatever I've got then put it away into my reloading toolboxes when I'm done.
4. It is faster than a single stage (for me) and faster to do "small batch" runs with. (no wasted time switching out dies between steps).
5. Can be used either in auto index or manual index mode (takes 20 seconds to switch).
What I don't like (so far):
1. It isn't as fast as a progressive! OK... that's to be expected :)) but it is reasonably fast. I have timed myself on several occasions and I can run ~140 rounds per hour including filling the primer tray once. I have done 200 but I was really cruising (bulk 9mm). For the first few hundred rounds it was more like 60 per hour but I was inspecting every round thoroughly, getting used to the priming system, establishing a good rhythm, etc.
2. Little nit-picky things I did to get it running smoothly: (1) I had to slightly adjust the auto-index alignment (~3 minutes). (2) Degrease and re-lubricate ram/turret mount with quality lube. (3) Place a small washer under the primer holder (was a bit low without it).
The ABC's Of Reloading is a good book, however many of the good manuals have a learning section with the data for many cartridges... 8)
Quote from: .3937 on June 27 2013 02:43:28 PM MDTCan someone suggest a book for me to start learning the basics?
I have reloading manuals from: Hornady, Speer, Nosler, Barnes, and Swift.
Of those I would suggest Hornady's manual. Speer I suggest as a close second. Both will get you through the basics with flying colors. Plus both offer more recipes than average (of course, each with their own bullets).
Quote from: sqlbullet on June 27 2013 08:30:19 AM MDTIt would be awesome if Lee would put together a $65 economy starter kit with this press.
I'ld like to see more of a Master Kit made available (based around a single stage press) that included many of the common use items virtually no kit ever offers. More or less like I explained earlier. But no doubt I feel there's room for an Economy Starter Kit as you mentioned too.
QuoteI will also comment that I personally don't think a reloading set-up is complete without a beam scale. I can live without my digital scale, but not my beam scale.
Agree 100%!
Definitely take a look at the Lyman 49th manual, it's a good "overall view" book that gives loads for many common bullets/powders.
Also, check your local library. I was surprised to find that mine had quite a few handloading/reloading books that I was able to read for free.
RMM laid it out pretty good. The Kempf Lee Classic Turrret Kit is great! And it's where I got mine. Get the Pro Measure. The standard one is junk. And you will want to go ahead and get the large and small primer setup. You will need a scale, calipers, tumbler, bullet puller, and check weights!!! A basic set of check weights. They will be the most important tool you ever buy. I don't care how good your scales are. Check weights keep YOU and your scales honest. Also look into getting a cheap tool for dressing the case mouth with. Sometimes new brass can be a little rough around the edges. Load books? Get a mixture of them. At least two if not more. I shoot a lot of XTP's so I have a old 3rd edition Hornady and the 7th, along with a Lyman 49th and a few others. I prefer hardback versions.
Have Fun! :)
As some have mentioned, it's not a bad idea to start out with a turret press. If I had it all to do over again I believe I would, being that you can use them as a single stage press when you want to, while at others times moving production along more efficiently when you want more speed without going to an all out progressive.