I'm nearing 14 months with one on order at my LGS. I'd not heard a sighting of a new one anywhere in ~1 year until 3 weeks ago, when a buddy handled one in a store in Memphis. The logistics of obtaining it were problematic so I decided to wait on my order (non-refundable deposit). Frankly I figured that if they were starting to show up in stores where people had not ordered them, mine on order should show up shortly. So far, no dice.
Anyone else seen one in a store lately? This is to be both my first 1911 and my first 10mm. I loaded up some ammo for it a year ago. ;D
GunBroker has 6 or 8 of them listed I see.
spaniel, Lets start by saying hello and welcome to the forum. :D Did you personally order the Kimber yourself or did the LGS do it for you? In other words who placed the order directly with Kimber? Is it possible the LGS is stalling you? I surely hope you were dealing with Kimber directly with your (non-refundable deposit)...I hope your LGS guy is on the up and up with you! :-\
The Kimbers are very nice guns in 10mm, much better guns and chamber support than the Colt DE's.
Good luck getting things sorted out! Hey if you get a few coins ahead get yourself a Glock 29 to start testing & enjoying the handloads.
Best regards! ;D
Welcome to the forum spaniel! 8)
Since there's no doubt brand new Kimber Eclipse Custom II handguns currently exist, my thought is your LGS guy should only be holding your deposit as non-refundable for up to some specified amount of time. I mean what; If because he's incompetent and it takes a decade to get one for you, that's okay? It sounds to me like Kimber knows nothing about it, as I can't believe they couldn't have filled that order within a year's time.
If it was me, I would at least put in a call to Kimber and find out what their feelings on the situation are. They would probably have as good of advice for you as anyone. I mean, we're not talking about some one off custom gun for multiple thousands of dollars. We're talking about a regular production piece.
Have you been in touch with the LGS guy lately? If so, what is he saying about it?
Kimber Customer Service = (888)243-4522 Monday-Friday 9am-7pm Eastern Time
One of my main shops (Ed's gun shop in Vass, NC) had one come in Tuesday. www.edsgunshop.com
The store has always done right by me, I have been doing business there for years. I checked in ~4 months ago and they confirmed that they had placed the order with Kimber. I was not aware a non-FFL could directly place an order with Kimber.
I'll make a stop by there this week now that I'm seeing more people confirm they are seeing them around. For months, there were none to be found that I could see. It may be a "production" gun but most manufacturers make such things in runs, and with a low-volume item like this that may mean once per year. I've seen where other people had this particular model on order up to a year before receiving.
I'ld still call Kimber, tell them the situation, and ask when the next production run will be or what they say in general.
It sounds like others are receiving new models of the same gun and have been. Therefore in my mind I'ld still be calling Kimber to find out there thoughts just as far as a basic timeline. Your LGS guy could do it too and should easily be able to figure out a basic time frame you should be expecting wait, but, it doesn't sound like he wants to take the time. If that's the case, there's no reason you can't question Kimber yourself.
Don't get me wrong, my intention isn't to make some huge deal out of anything. Only that I'm pointing out you do have options toward nailing down, at the very least, a loose time frame.
Quote from: REDLINE on July 28 2013 10:33:38 AM MDT
I'ld still call Kimber, tell them the situation, and ask when the next production run will be or what they say in general.
It sounds like others are receiving new models of the same gun and have been. Therefore in my mind I'ld still be calling Kimber to find out there thoughts just as far as a basic timeline. Your LGS guy could do it too and should easily be able to figure out a basic time frame you should be expecting wait, but, it doesn't sound like her wants to take the time. If that's the case, there's no reason you can't question Kimber yourself.
Don't get me wrong, my intention isn't to make some huge deal out of anything. Only that I'm pointing out you do have options toward nailing down, at the very least, a loose time frame.
I agree. I'm talking to the shop tomorrow if possible, either they will call Kimber or I will. I think I've been patient. :)
If you end up not getting a Kimber may I suggest you have a look at the Dan Wesson Razorback. I know I was at a gunshow last week and ran into an armorer that works on a lot of 1911's and he handed me a bag of parts. I said what are these and he said broken kimber mim made parts. DW's have no mim parts, they use Ed brown and egw tool steel machined parts. I guess you could always put better parts in it though if something does go bad. I just thought I'd mention this to you.
Im surprised Kimber is still in NY.
Quote from: spaniel on July 28 2013 04:02:41 PM MDTI think I've been patient. :)
After an honest 14 months or so of waiting, I feel you've been more than patient. IMO, for 10mm Auto, that gun is worth holding out for, being that it utilizes an extra heavy barrel with top notch chamber support that has no major problems handling the hottest 10mm loads.
Good Luck on getting it sooner than later! 8)
The moral of the story is, don't order a Kimber.
(that is different from saying don't buy a Kimber)
I was told by someone that stores receive more or less random allocations and don't know what is going to show up in their store. This store indicates that this is not true, they order and will eventually receive those orders 6-12 months in the future, with no idea what is going to show up when. So they indicate that my order went in line behind every dealer who ordered that particular item as normal stock, which explains why they are now showing up in stores but my order has not arrived yet. They also indicated that this particularly rare model is probably only made once per year.
They are going to call in and check for me when the people they normally talk to at Kimber are there. I was told they did not expect to get me more than a rough estimate of when they were going to produce that model again (looks like they are/did from them coming in stock in places).
Since when I ordered there were really none around I could find, I was led (by some) to believe that placing an order would get me ahead. Apparently all it did was mean that I guaranteed that...eventually...one would show up in my particular store. I also felt more comfortable (if I had to order) doing so with a store I trusted. In retrospect I would have been better off just waiting for them to come in stock somewhere and do an FFL transfer. If I buy another Kimber that is certainly what I would do.
I sure hope the gun is worth the wait! For reference, I was told ~9mo when I ordered it.
Man, I feel your pain. All I can say is, sometimes the waiting is worth it. You have to trust me on that one. With that said, I have never owned nor fired a kimber anything. I did like Bart Skeltons article on the stainless target II though. Almost made me buy one........hmmmm
That really does hurt the consumer who tries to deal with a local gun store.
But I can't really fault Kimber. It sounds as if they process the in the order received. It just sucks that there were so many in line in front of you.
It would also be nice if there were some way Kimber of differentiate between those orders that were for waiting customers versus 'stocking' orders.
Quote from: sqlbullet on July 30 2013 01:40:22 PM MDT
That really does hurt the consumer who tries to deal with a local gun store.
But I can't really fault Kimber. It sounds as if they process the in the order received. It just sucks that there were so many in line in front of you.
It would also be nice if there were some way Kimber of differentiate between those orders that were for waiting customers versus 'stocking' orders.
Yes, this is bad for the LGS. Part of the reason I did it this way was because I trusted them more than an internet deal, and they have done right by me in the past so I wanted them to get the full sale and not just the FFL.
I have no problem with Kimber processing orders in the order they were received. However, it is a poor business model to accept orders you will not be able to fulfill for more than a year, with no communication with the customer as to when you will be able to fill them. This is why when gun supplies started getting bought out last year, many companies stopped taking backorders.
I guess Kimber figures people want their guns so much it doesn't matter...but these things have a way of coming back to get companies that think like this. Makes me wonder why they spend so much on advertising, since they run such an order backlog...
My LGS reached their Kimber rep as promised. They said that based on the date of my order vs what they are shipping now and the rate of manufacture of that model, they are estimating (no guarantees) September shipment.
I told the LGS guy (I don't know if he remembers me but I've bought half a dozen guns from him personally) I was sorry if I was being a PIA over it and he said no worries, I'd been more patient than he would have been. ;D
Looking forward to my first 10mm...
That's why it is good to stay in touch! Hope it all comes together for you as intended. 8)
Quote from: spaniel on August 02 2013 04:29:23 PM MDT...they are estimating (no guarantees) September shipment.
Sounds like good news to me!
There was another one of these Custom TLE no rail last week at an East Coast wholesaler $1087 is dealer cost. The arched MS housing is my modification, also 20# spring to replace Kimber 18.5# spring and FPS by EGW to slow slide w/o out over strong springs some use. My 200gr XTP Hornady loaded hot drops the case about 8-10 feet from me, w/o EGW FPS about 35 feet. Sure save wear and tear on gun by return slamming caused by 22# to 26# springs some use with 10mm running full power hot loads.
Custom TLE/RL 10mm with night sights standard.
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x245/oldnavy6393/K-05.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/oldnavy6393/media/K-05.jpg.html)
Quote from: Retired Squid on August 04 2013 07:25:56 AM MDT
There was another one of these Custom TLE no rail last week at an East Coast wholesaler $1087 is dealer cost. The arched MS housing is my modification, also 20# spring to replace Kimber 18.5# spring and FPS by EGW to slow slide w/o out over strong springs some use. My 200gr XTP Hornady loaded hot drops the case about 8-10 feet from me, w/o EGW FPS about 35 feet. Sure save wear and tear on gun by return slamming caused by 22# to 26# springs some use with 10mm running full power hot loads.
Custom TLE/RL 10mm with night sights standard.
(http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x245/oldnavy6393/K-05.jpg) (http://s185.photobucket.com/user/oldnavy6393/media/K-05.jpg.html)
Got a link to that EGW FPS handy? I was planning on installing one. I assume there is fitting required? With the long wait I figured no need to do research way in advance.
They are worth the twice the price.
http://www.egwguns.com/top-of-the-gun-page-5/
Given how hard they are do you think EGW will machine one to a set thickness to match the original?
They are very easy to do even without professional tools. All you need is knife honing (sharping stone) a 5 to 10 minutes of your time. Best part is you can remove the FPS w/o removing slide from frame, just lock slide back have to punches or something similar and push FP down and push down the keeper pin underneath, cock FPS down enough to prevent FP from re-entering hole (use a punch or metal pin about half diameter of FPS hole) the put finger over top to stop FP in case it was not still caught by the lower pin and then just pull the FPS out. If no micrometer to measure old FPS no big deal, just hone some and then put them back to back to see how much more to remove. Longest it's ever taken me has been 10 minutes or so, but I have large arthritic hands and have to work slow and easy.
I had one from them before but they sent the wrong series and I didn't opt for a replacement. Did they put the radius on the edge for yours?
The whole thing is the bottom is flat and not beveled, however if you want to bevel it some it is easy to do. You seem to be making this over complicated or over thinking the way it works. For someone with just basic mechanical skills this is a very easy install and is the best way to tame the slide's rear travel.
This is actually the way JMB originally designed the gun. But Colt changed the design at US Army request to make it easier for horse solders to rack the slide and not have to cock the hammer first to do so. I guess they wanted to eliminate a step while a guy was busy controlling horse, myself I always cock hammer before racking slide as it's a lot easier regardless of recoil spring weight.
Thanks for the information, Squid.
Here is the thing. They sent me the wrong one the first time and all the Henning blocks I have in my other pieces had the radius done plus fit with no modification. The original document I found concerning the design said the angle of that radius is critical (maybe it isn't). Stuff I read said if you don't break the edge your hammer takes a beating quick!
Let me see if I can dig up the original blurb.
The original 1911 design flat bottom on the left with 1918 version right (looks basically like what is in the Razorback) with radius dimensions.
(http://cdn.firearmstalk.com/forums/attachments/f57/41302d1331447595-firing-pin-stop-fps2.jpg)
Second one is someone doing it:
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=5&f=49&t=57328
They sent me an 80 Series the first time but I will re-order.
You are welcome Spaniel, hope it helps you. I ordered two of them today for 80's series Colt LWC and Kimber TLE/RL that is a real nice duty type weapon.
They do sell drop in generic FPS, but those can in some cases move around too much and cause a malfunction. If you have a light weight hammer sure you could have a problem. My LWC will need the edge radius some besides the removal of their sharp edge because of lite weight hammer, or as some describe it on outside of gun "de-horn" the part which is a five minute job.
Putting that original radius on the FPS is not really 100% necessary or required, is easy to do a pretty close rendition for the light weight hammers, but not really necessary to do more then de-horn the edge for the standard hammers.
For those not owning Dan Wesson 1911's of recent years, they use the original rounded radius on their FPS shown on left in image below and not the tapper one that Colt and others use on the right.
Was looking at my new model Colt DE last night and could not believe the quality difference of the DW over the DE is astounding.
I have a picture I will dig up of mine. You saying the DW doesn't need a new block?
Here was my attempt with it and picture. The factory block is angled which might not show in the picture.
http://10mm-firearms.com/gunsmithing/the-egw-flat-bottom-firing-pin-block-i-purchased-for-my-dan-wesson-didn't-fit/msg1409/#msg1409
I will have to get a picture of mine tonight or tomorrow.
EGW told me they make them for DW in 2014. They are flat.
Well since it's 2013......
DW may get them from EGW then radius them. I just know mine is like pre-1918 guns, not flat and not the long bevel.
My block will be here Friday and I will snap a couple pictures of both again. I'm putting in a 20lb flat coil spring too.
I was mowing yard yesterday and stepped into a damn mole hole and fell, screwed up my day yesterday and today. Will see if I can get pictures tonight maybe, if not Sunday will be soonest I can break out the Nikon.
RS, hope you are all good, on Memorial Day I fell in my garden, tripped on my perimeter deer netting. I fractured my knee in two spots but I'm back to work now. Hell, I would have enjoyed the vacation but it rained all but 3 or 4 days. I did shoot some varmints though. ;D
Quote from: MCQUADE on August 08 2013 07:30:13 PM MDT
RS, hope you are all good, on Memorial Day I fell in my garden, tripped on my perimeter deer netting. I fractured my knee in two spots but I'm back to work now. Hell, I would have enjoyed the vacation but it rained all but 3 or 4 days. I did shoot some varmints though. ;D
At 68 falls that were funny 30 years ago can be very serious to life threatening. :o Got a couple sore spots, but due to all the rain here my Zoysia grass was about 6" deep and it that really reduced the impact. ;D
Sounds like if not for bad luck, you would have no luck at all. :D
I tell my wife the same thing. We are in are early 50's. But she races around so fast & spastically that I'm worried if she continues doing this when she is 70 there will be some major accidents! I keep telling her to slow down & move precise. She slow down & is still a spaz ::)
I hope she doesn't read this forum....or you're dead man walking ;)
Quote from: DAVIDF on August 09 2013 03:21:52 PM MDT
I tell my wife the same thing. We are in are early 50's. But she races around so fast & spastically that I'm worried if she continues doing this when she is 70 there will be some major accidents! I keep telling her to slow down & move precise. She slow down & is still a spaz ::)
Or just maybe her reading these posts would help it sink in sooner than later before it's too late and worse does come to worse.
I hear what you're saying DAVIDF. I've seen this type of bad practice in action. Mostly my Mom. Too often hurriedly doing stuff. She was trying to get a bunch of backyard work done too quickly, hurried up the ladder to prune some branches from a tree, missed a step and and came back down like a ton of bricks that never had a ladder under them. Luckily she wasn't hanging onto her chainsaw at the time. That was a partial day in the hospital and afterward another month at home in pain(s). Last year while work was being done on her house some of the kitchen floor boards were removed. And while trying to accomplish whatever, she stepped where there was no floor, and I expect the rest is self-explanatory. Luckily that was one area where there wasn't a full basement underneath. I think she broke 2 ribs on that fall, and luckily that's all she broke. Then there was the time.... Anyway, she never learns. Makes me wonder if the older = wiser thing is a myth.
Update -- I got the call this afternoon, my gun has arrived at my LGS. So, just shy of 21 months from order. I sure hope it lives up to the hype....lesson learned, I'm not going to order a Kimber again. Buy off-the-rack only.
I'll pick it up tomorrow, run a couple boxes of rounds through it stock to check function, then add the magwell and springs I've had sitting in a box for over a year now. I also have the firing pin stop recommended in this thread in that box, thanks again and I'll be fitting that too.
Fired three mags, the Kimber mag and two Tripp mags. A fail to feed on each one, but I blame the wide hollowpoint 155gr hand loads. They just didn't want to climb the ramp. Not much taper on the front of them to pop them up towards the chamber.
Installed Kimber MSH/magwell, 20# recoil spring, and EGW flat-bottom firing pin stop. Someone told me it would be a Series 70 of course it is 80, so I had the wrong one. An hour with a dremel and file and I made the firing pin stop into an 80. :D Significant difference in racking, we'll see how it shoots. I was shooting a box sitting on a crushed rock driveway; the violence in impact of the bullets vs the same bullets out of my 40SW was impressive.
Quote from: spaniel on February 27 2014 06:52:23 PM MST
Installed Kimber MSH/magwell, 20# recoil spring, and EGW flat-bottom firing pin stop. Someone told me it would be a Series 70 of course it is 80, so I had the wrong one. An hour with a dremel and file and I made the firing pin stop into an 80. :D Significant difference in racking, we'll see how it shoots. I was shooting a box sitting on a crushed rock driveway; the violence in impact of the bullets vs the same bullets out of my 40SW was impressive.
None of Kimber's 10mms are series 70. The only models without the Schwartz safety currently in production are the Warrior models from what I understand. I'd also suggest a one piece magwell. I've used the Kimber but the screw seems to either the screw works itself loose or breaks (in tight with red loctite) on me when I shoot a lot of full power loads. Expecting a A&S today in the mail but may switch to a Wilson Combat at some point as it's more like Kimber's.
I prefer the S&A one piece design too, that little extra length makes a huge difference in the feel of the gun to me. All of my 1911's have one installed on them.
(http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx142/MOUNTAINWILLIAM/IMG_0631.jpg)
Well, the Kimber magwell is on it now so we'll see how it lasts. If it breaks I know where to go next.
Yes, we almost 2 years to get the gun I learned a lot then forgot a lot while I was waiting. I don't remember where I heard it was a 70 but they were adamant they know what they were talking about...being such a small part I didn't give it much thought and just ordered it. It was annoying to modify it, but not the end of the world either.
Loaded up a ladder of 180gr JHP loads with Longshot tonight, hopefully I'll get the chrony out tomorrow and figure what my go-to load will be so I can fire up the progressive and run until I am out of brass. :)
http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr85/logpics/20090530_1.jpg (http://i472.photobucket.com/albums/rr85/logpics/20090530_1.jpg)
Quote from: spaniel on February 28 2014 07:37:06 PM MST
Well, the Kimber magwell is on it now so we'll see how it lasts. If it breaks I know where to go next.
Yes, we almost 2 years to get the gun I learned a lot then forgot a lot while I was waiting. I don't remember where I heard it was a 70 but they were adamant they know what they were talking about...being such a small part I didn't give it much thought and just ordered it. It was annoying to modify it, but not the end of the world either.
Loaded up a ladder of 180gr JHP loads with Longshot tonight, hopefully I'll get the chrony out tomorrow and figure what my go-to load will be so I can fire up the progressive and run until I am out of brass. :)
I know this is an old thread, but I`ve been searching all threads concerning Kimber 10mm handguns. I saw the talk concerning the EGW firing pin stops. Keep in mind, Kimber series 2 are NOT series 80 guns. This is an interesting thread from logman over on the 1911 forum and I hope he doesn`t mind me sharing this. See the link to his pic above. Steve
This comes up from time to time and here is my version of how to deal with it.
I like the Kimber style Swartz safety. Kimber however doesn't respect their own product sometimes in the way it is timed in some of their pistols and just say squeeze the grip safety more. Wrong. The grip safety should not release the trigger before the firing pin block, therefore a light strike is impossible. Kimber also foolishly ships with a Series 80 style firing pin stop, that compounds the problem as it creates a square hole exactly in line with the push rod. This then can shorten the push rod as the slide is removed and installed, or worse jams the slide when the push rod gets in the hole from inadvertently bumping the grip safety while disassembling. I really dislike most Series 80 firing pin stops as they are cut for the offset ejector also and only contact 2/3 of the hammer face. So that gets replaced with a Series 70 style EGW part.
So before more here's that.
Okay, that's fixed. Now the timing. First here's the test that it must pass. Grip firmly, and hold the trigger back, and cycle the slide. Now while continuing to hold the trigger back, release the grip safety, and the firing pin must be free of the block. The trigger is holding the grip safety at the release point for the trigger by blocking it. Check with a punch.
Okay, now you know whether it is in time or not, but even if it is in time you may wish for less grip safety compression and staying in time. Plenty of ways to bypass the system, but I hate that with a passion as most often you are giving up something you don't need too. Tuning is the answer.
Three phases to tuning, each requiring less grip safety compression to still be in time. Phase 1, 2, and 3. Phase 1, anyone can do with hand tools, 2 and 3 require a little TIG welding.
Phase 1
Remove rear sight, spring and block. the block has a half moon cut that rests on the firing pin as it's stop. The plunger portion can be as low as the top of the frame will allow for re-installing the slide. So the moon cut can be deepened to this point. Now that you understand this or are about too. Put slide on frame and get a visual reference of how far it can be lowered, not much. Advise to file with a 5/32" chainsaw file which is .156" in dia. and the firing pin is .160", so pretty good match. Check after each smooth straight stroke. Full sight and spring assemble isn't necessary to check. Once lowered to the point that assembly is still possible without the plunger hanging down so far as to catch in the mag well, or contact the frame top, stop.
Imagine the gun operating under live fire, and note the shape of the top of the push rod protruding above the frame when the grip safety is fully compressed, take a look. When the slide comes back the plunger does drop down and when it chambers the plunger will hit the push rod and ride up on it and release the firing pin for the next shot. So now that the plunger has been lowered some the leading edge may well need to be beveled slightly and smoothly. A stone and file can be used and polish.
This alone will bring most into compliance and reduce overall needed grip safety travel.
Phase 2
When you grip your Kimber with the grip of choice, high thumbs forward for instance, the grip safety is compressed to a spot that is comfortable to you. So allowing it to come back a little more doesn't really matter as your hand will contact it as you draw and assume your grip. Some complain that with the grip they prefer, the grip safety doesn't get compressed very much, this is an improvement for that.
This requires welding, TIG being the easiest. After relieving the MSH stop surface to allow the grip safety to come out a bit more, check with assembled frame and note the top of push rod to top of frame. You want to gain a little space for the top of the push rod. Now you can weld a small bump on the top of the grip safety arm and fit so that when the grip safety isn't depressed the slide will pass over the push rod. this will give earlier firing pin block release relative to the grip safety position with your grip. Trigger release can then be tuned to occur following the firing pin release.
These two phases will greatly enhance this system and once done will not allow a light strike with very little grip safety depression and you will no longer be aware of it, but it still works for all designed purposes.
Phase 3
Extreme measure. The firing pin as we noted in Phase 1, is the stop for the block, so if you weld a dab as needed on the left side of the block so the block stops by the welded spot contacting the frame the moon notch can be slightly raised, but yet, not release the pin. One stroke at a time.
LOG
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I just installed a Series 70 into my Eclipse. Just took longer than the usual 10-15 min to fit it. Steve
Logman's pic in the above link shows how I've done the hammer edge on all three of my 1911's. Just stoned the edge to break it. Steve