I just heard from a friend of mine that owns a full Custom 10MM Magnum revolver (Ruger GP100) . This Christian brother is going to let me have the gun for the next 4-6 weeks and I will work up loads for him .Hey what are friends for ;D.
When I get the gun I will post pics of the gun and data as I am able to work up loads.I have Nosler 135,150,180 gr HP's and 3 cast bullet moulds , 190gr LFNGC and 215 gr WFNGC and a Lee 175gr TCPB mould.
Thank the LORD, I have seen pics of this gun and it looks sweeeeet 8).
Sean
Holey Schnikeys...An SP101 in 10mm Magnum. Talk about your ideal belly gun :-)
Anxious to see pictures of this one. And curious who did the custom build?
Be careful, as the converted SP101 (originally for 357 and bored out) may not handle full potential 10mm Magnums.
I have some Accurate Arms data for the 10mm magnum in a PDF file should you need a copy.
Quote from: The_Shadow on July 03 2012 10:51:27 AM MDT
Be careful, as the converted SP101 (originally for 357 and bored out) may not handle full potential 10mm Magnums.
I have some Accurate Arms data for the 10mm magnum in a PDF file should you need a copy.
Yes and this conversion was done on a NEW 5 shot cylinder built from scratch----- NOT a rebored 6 shot.
I found John Taffins old 10 MM Mag data. If you have something different please email me a copy.
Thanks,
Sean
Glad to hear of the 5 shot cylinder that should be much stronger...I sent you the pdf file via e-mail.
Good luck!
Wade
Anxious to see pictures of this one. And curious who did the custom build?
[/quote]
Gary Reeder out of Flagstaff,Az did the build.
I think it is his Skorpion series, with special full moon clips.
I hope to have the gun by friday this week.
Sean
Quote from: 475/480 on July 03 2012 11:38:53 AM MDT
Gary Reeder out of Flagstaff,Az did the build.
I think it is his Skorpion series, with special full moon clips.
I hope to have the gun by friday this week.
Sean
Hearing that it is a Gary Reeder calms my fears about 10mm Mag and SP101 a good bit. I have heard many good things about his work.
Please post pics once the gun is in your possession. Thanks.
That sounds like a lot of fun. However, there a few caveats with this cartridge. Originally and officially, it is NOT a "10mm" bullet diameter. You need to either have the machine report or measure. The 10mm AMT Mag is originally .397" bullet dia. This means, if the bore is original design, .400" and .401" bullets may not be friendly. If you load original 10mm Mag bullets (at .397/8"), and the bore is current 10mm Auto, performance will suffer, and lead bullets will be abysmal and messy. Just suggesting you verify what you have is what you think you have. If there's any doubt, measure. This round was originally developed for the Automag pistol, and not much original data is available for it. 1992 was a long time ago, and not much has been done with it since. It is recommend to use small RIFLE primers, for all but the lightest of loads with small bullets. Larger bullets (180+) should see much slower/magnum powders and full C.O.L. (1.550", +-.003"). That's a lot of case volume for fast powders. Also verify the headspace is very tight, with moon clips or rimmed cases being the preferred method, with open case head (closed would be better). The original design spec (NON SAAMI) was a 220 gr. heavy jacketed bullet at near 1400 FPS through a 6" barrel. Have fun with it. I know I would!
Quote from: sqlbullet on July 03 2012 12:53:51 PM MDT
Quote from: 475/480 on July 03 2012 11:38:53 AM MDT
Gary Reeder out of Flagstaff,Az did the build.
I think it is his Skorpion series, with special full moon clips.
I hope to have the gun by friday this week.
Sean
Hearing that it is a Gary Reeder calms my fears about 10mm Mag and SP101 a good bit. I have heard many good things about his work.
I agree, but the SP101 wouldn't be
my first choice. Maybe a BH or RH. Not that I would eliminate the 101 as a candidate, but would consider a lot of other platforms before it.
DM1906 - I am not sure about some of your info?
**John Taffin has a COMPLETE write-up on his website on the IAI- 10MM Magnum - He used Starline brass many years ago - LARGE pistol primers. ALL jacketed bullets .400--ALL cast bullets .401.
The custom 5 shot GP100 cylinder is 1.770" +/-. I will keep my COL under that.
Sean
Quote from: 475/480 on July 03 2012 02:45:35 PM MDT
DM1906 - I am not sure about some of your info?
**John Taffin has a COMPLETE write-up on his website on the IAI- 10MM Magnum - He used Starline brass many years ago - LARGE pistol primers. ALL jacketed bullets .400--ALL cast bullets .401.
The custom 5 shot SP101 cylinder is 1.770" +/-. I will keep my COL under that.
Sean
No disagreement. As I said, 1992 was a long time ago. Any differences from what I posted are probably wildcat variations of a wildcat, which isn't uncommon with obsolete testbeds. The large pistol primer is a surprise, though. Perhaps it is not intended for full original pressure (I certainly wouldn't entertain the notion). The cylinder length isn't necessarily the C.O.L., and can be dangerous if assumed so. For example, the SP101 cylinder was originally designed and intended for use with cartridges of no more than 1.590". The distance between bullet point and forcing cone is by design. Pressure rise and projectile acceleration can be a critical factor, and almost always is as the pressures and velocities increase, coupled with a possible tighter bore. IAI purchased AMT much after the development of the 10mm Mag, so there may have been some significant design modifications I'm not aware of. Just suggesting verification, that's all.
I have read and followed Taffins's writings. He's good, but as with any of the others, I don't agree entirely with his methods, assumed facts, and/or conclusions. Not to discredit his article, in any way. He is as thorough as any, often more. His test was with an IAI pistol, not the original AMT, so there may be significant changes, or none he was aware of. I don't know, he didn't specify, the article isn't dated and I don't remember when I first read it (at first release). You are using a completely different platform, which may present some significant differences when comparing your experience to his data. Just suggesting caution and verification of assumed data, as with any "new" cartridge (especially one with such potential), nothing more.
Sounds like and interesting and fun project. Can't wait to hear the results. :)
Quote from: 475/480 on July 03 2012 11:19:33 AM MDT
Quote from: The_Shadow on July 03 2012 10:51:27 AM MDT
Be careful, as the converted SP101 (originally for 357 and bored out) may not handle full potential 10mm Magnums.
I have some Accurate Arms data for the 10mm magnum in a PDF file should you need a copy.
Yes and this conversion was done on a NEW 5 shot cylinder built from scratch----- NOT a rebored 6 shot.
I found John Taffins old 10 MM Mag data. If you have something different please email me a copy.
Thanks,
Sean
Maybe you mean a GP100, not an SP101? The SP101 is originally a 5 shot in 357, as sold by Ruger. This is the small short-barrel pocket pistol, like a J-frame S&W. The GP100 is the larger 6-shot 357, like a S&W 686. I've heard of GP100's converted to 10mm, but not the SP101.
:o You are correct. It is a GP100. I have not got it yet ,hopefully SOON.
Sean
Maybe you mean a GP100, not an SP101? The SP101 is originally a 5 shot in 357, as sold by Ruger. This is the small short-barrel pocket pistol, like a J-frame S&W. The GP100 is the larger 6-shot 357, like a S&W 686. I've heard of GP100's converted to 10mm, but not the SP101.
[/quote]
Happy days, the Skorpion has arrived- Fed Ex just dropped the gun off at my work, - There are some benifits to working in Texas ;D , barrell length is 5.5". Maybe I can get a pic taken with my Iphone and post.
I will get picture taken this weekend for sure and get some loads worked up . I hope to shoot this weekend but it has been raining for 4 straight days here in Houston with 50% chance Saturday/Sunday.
Sean
Yeah...Rain.
First Saturday I have free here in a month. New chrony and new handgun that need trying out. And a 60% chance of thunderstorms tomorrow in the the Utah desert.
Dang.
Quote from: sqlbullet on July 13 2012 10:30:52 AM MDT
Yeah...Rain.
First Saturday I have free here in a month. New chrony and new handgun that need trying out. And a 60% chance of thunderstorms tomorrow in the the Utah desert.
Dang.
Major bummer. :( Hope it works out sooner than later!
Looking promising right now. Just have a few honey do's to get knocked out.
And if it is a no go, I still will be working on guns a major part of the day.
Here is a picture of the Skorpion 10 Mm Mag.
Recoil was not bad for a light revolver , velocities were in the 1350-1500 fps range for 200gr XTP and 215gr WFNGC's.
I had to use the CH cannelure tool on the Hornady 200 gr XTP's, the CH tool worked perfectly (as advertised) -- very easy to setup and use on jacketed bullets. I will use it on the Hornady 180 gr XTP's and Nosler 150 and 180 gr HP's.
Sean
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x150/475480/Skorpion10MMMag001.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x150/475480/10MMMag2.jpg
WOW, very nice revolver!
Interested in what loads were tried...
Thanks for sharing!
Quote from: The_Shadow link=topic=173.msg2682#msg2682 date=1342454569
Interested in what loads were tried...
Thanks for sharing!
/quote]
200 XTP, AA9 -19.0gr= 1450 fps
200 XTP, H110 -22.0gr= 1440
200 XTP, Bl Dot -16.0gr= 1425
215gr WFNGC, AA9 -19.0gr = 1450 fps
215gr WFNGC, H110 -21.0gr = 1460
215gr WFNGC, Bl Dot -15.0gr = 1430
** Remember these were shot in a 5 Shot custom cylinder , the chambers are tight. Some of these loads are in the low 50,000 PSI range. All loads extracted easily.
Also thanks to Wade for the Accurate Arms load data he emailed me.
******Warning DO NOT use this LOAD DATA in ANY other gun**************Sean
Wow. Those are some serious numbers. Looks like another gun to lust after.
I found 17 -.411-220 gr Keith cast bullets that I can size down to .406 and then .401 and see how they shoot in the 10MM Mag. I also have some .411-255gr WFNGC I will size down to .401 and see how they perform at 1200 fps +/-.
I think the 220gr Keith will shoot pretty good at 1000-1100 fps. The 255 gr cast --maybe?
The 255 gr cast did shoot good out of my STI 10 MM at 900 fps.
Sean
Quote from: 475/480 on July 16 2012 08:26:21 AM MDT
Here is a picture of the Skorpion 10 Mm Mag.
Sean
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x150/475480/Skorpion10MMMag001.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x150/475480/10MMMag2.jpg
Thanks for the links! Fine looking piece.
Here are some Hornady 180gr XTP numbers..
AA9-19.0gr =1445-------> AA9- 20.0gr=1520 fps , very accurate load at 15 yards
H110- 22.0gr =1470--------> H110- 23.0gr =1530 fps
Blue Dot- 15.0gr =1420--------->Blue Dot -16.0gr =1510 fps
I have not had time to check accuracy at 50 yards ,maybe this weekend.
Sean
Thats a pretty cool revolver!
I submit its a Service-Six not a SP101, but thats semantics. kick ass just the same! ;)
I had a chance to fire a mag foll form a AMT Auto mag in 10MM mag back in the day.. potent gun. I also owned a Javelina and it had a soft frame and galled badly... I did not trust the 10MM Mag frame...
The AMT Auto-mag series, was available is 30 carbine 10MM mag and 45 Win mag unless I am mistaken...
CW
Quote from: 475/480 on July 24 2012 12:13:05 PM MDT
Here are some Hornady 180gr XTP numbers..
AA9-19.0gr =1445-------> AA9- 20.0gr=1520 fps , very accurate load at 15 yards
H110- 22.0gr =1470--------> H110- 23.0gr =1530 fps
Blue Dot- 15.0gr =1420--------->Blue Dot -16.0gr =1510 fps
I have not had time to check accuracy at 50 yards ,maybe this weekend.
Sean
+1500fps is real nice with 180s. It's like the jump from 40S&W-10mm all over again. And from that length barrel it's even more impressive, on top of figuring in barrel/cylinder gap. BTW, how many thousandths is the gap on that? .012"?
+1500fps is real nice with 180s. It's like the jump from 40S&W-10mm all over again. And from that length barrel it's even more impressive, on top of figuring in barrel/cylinder gap. BTW, how many thousandths is the gap on that? .012"?
[/quote]
I have not measured the cylinder gap .Probably .006" or less . It should not be anywhere close to .012".
I will measure when I get time.
Sean
I agree that no barrel/cylinder gap should be .012", but it is my understanding that even if none are now, some used to be.
Freedom Arms generally ranges from .002"-.003", but that's really tight! I think most Ruger revolvers are around the .006" or so you mentioned.
I've heard pistol silhouette competition shooters say the Freedom Arms gives 100fps additional velocity with same barrel lengths compared to Ruger revolvers because of the Freedom Arms extra tight barrel/cylinder gap.
Quote from: cwlongshot on July 24 2012 03:02:14 PM MDT
I submit its a Service-Six not a SP101, but thats semantics. kick ass just the same! ;)
The OP later clarified it is a GP-100 (Service Six revised-ish) towards to end of page one.
But it is a sweet gun either way.
Brass is Starline , Primers are WLP .
Here are some numbers for the Nolser 150 gr HP.
AA9-19.0gr =1359-----> 21.0gr =1523
H110- 22.0gr =1368------->24.0gr =1501
Blue Dot-16.0gr =1508------>18.0gr = 1644
-------------------------------------------------
Here are some Hornady 180gr XTP numbers..
AA9-19.0gr =1445-------> AA9- 20.0gr=1520 fps , very accurate load at 15 yards
H110- 22.0gr =1470--------> H110- 23.0gr =1530 fps
Blue Dot- 15.0gr =1420--------->Blue Dot -16.0gr =1510 fps
--------------------------------------------------------------------
220 gr Cast Keith -a .410" caliber cast bullet sized down to .401"
Blue Dot -11.0gr =1076-------> 12.0gr =1180 - shot good at 15 yards.
------------------------------------------------------
255gr Cast WFNGC - a .410" caliber cast bullet sized down to .401". Very accurate at 15 yards.
AA9- 16.0gr = 1283--------->18.0gr =1408
H110- 17.0gr =1257--------->19.0gr =1365
Blue Dot- 12.0gr =1199--------> 14.0gr =1320
-----------------------------------------------------
Sean
Quote from: REDLINE on July 25 2012 03:15:00 PM MDT
I agree that no barrel/cylinder gap should be .012", but it is my understanding that even if none are now, some used to be.
Freedom Arms generally ranges from .002"-.003", but that's really tight! I think most Ruger revolvers are around the .006" or so you mentioned.
I measured the cylinder gap this weekend - A .004" gauge would fit and a .005" would not fit.
So .0045" it is.
Sean
Those 10mm Mag numbers are great and I am still amazed at the efficiency of the Blue Dot powder, at providing good numbers whit reasonable pressures in most any cartridge/bullet weight combination! :D
Quote from: 475/480 on July 30 2012 08:03:44 AM MDT
Quote from: REDLINE on July 25 2012 03:15:00 PM MDT
I agree that no barrel/cylinder gap should be .012", but it is my understanding that even if none are now, some used to be.
Freedom Arms generally ranges from .002"-.003", but that's really tight! I think most Ruger revolvers are around the .006" or so you mentioned.
I measured the cylinder gap this weekend - A .004" gauge would fit and a .005" would not fit.
So .0045" it is.
Sean
Thanks for posting the actual measurement. Based on all I've heard that's relatively impressive.
Clements Custom Guns also offers this conversion on the GP100. Been thinking I may need one.