So I've got a good amount of once fired assorted handgun and rifle brass that I've accumulated because I plan to start into reloading one day. I'd like to in the mean time get a small easy to use press and the equipment needed to deprime my cases and get them cleaned. I've searched around and it seems everyone has their personal preference for their equipment be it because of cost, quality, consistency, etc. I'd just like to get some reccomendations from you all about what would be a good investment as far as a small dedicated (for the time being) depriming press, decapping dies, and cleaning methods.
From what I've seen/read, for cleaning I like the idea of the wet tumbling/stainless steel pin media process and that's about as much as I've decided I'd like to get.
Thoughts? Any information is appreciated.
I usually recommend a strong single stage press like the RCBS Rock Chucker Kit, it has most of what you need especially complimented with quality manual. However many other makes are good as well. I still us a RCBS Jr. press for many task especially seating and crimping because of the great feedback I feel as I use the press, I can feel whats going on as I stroke the press.
If you intend to do rifle handloading the effort required to fully-resize casings calls for a heavy duty press with compound leverage to get the job done without working you or your loading table too hard.
Be sure the press you get has enough opening to cycle the longest casings and loaded cartridges, there are some strictly dedicated to pistol ammo.
I use RCBS dies for 10mm and 40S&W but you can't beat a great set of Dillon dies for their design either. I use the LEE FCD for "pass-through" sizing, some use the Redding GRX die (carbide is best). http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XcUh9LgqGV0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=XcUh9LgqGV0) This reconditions the brass in areas that the normal sizing process doesn't reach. Warning it doesn't fix "SMILE" damaged cases!
If you have questions don't hesitate to ask! ;D
Like The_Shadow, I have a Rock Chucker, and it came in an RCBS kit that included a scales, powder throw, manual, and a variety of tools. It is a rock solid press.
I also have one of these little cheap Lee C presses (https://fsreloading.com/lee-precision-reloader-press-90045.html). I probably use it more than any other press I own. It is lightweight and cheap, and while it will full length size rifle brass, it is a chore. But, for flaring, seating, crimping, it is really useful. I have mine mounted to a piece of 1X4 and it gets taken to the range, or living room, or where ever I want to work. Also works great for decapping and push through sizing(of pistol brass).
Thanks for the input guys. Like you've both mentioned, everything I've read about the Rock Chucker has been very good and it looks to be built pretty well 'bulletproof' (lol). sqlbullet I'm glad you mentioned the Lee, a search on amazon turned up the model 90045 for $26.20. The price is very attactive for my current project but being cheap, paired with it not being supported the whole way around like the Rock chucker, made me think it wasn't worth it. I'm glad to hear yours works out so well for you. Is the base (red part) on yours steel or aluminum?
Another possibly dumb question that I have is do generally all presses accept the same dies/shell holders or do you have to use Lee dies/holders on Lee presses, RCBS on RCBS, etc. etc? Also, any personal preferences on brand of shell holders?
Lots of things to think about, thanks! I'd love to drop 500 bucks or so and get everything I need right now but we all know how it goes . . .
ditto on the recommendation for the RCBS Rockchucker kit, best way to get up and running imo, the kit has everything you need to get started, including the manual, but you need to get dies components... even if you get a progressive press later you will still use your single stage imo
MIne is aluminium as the brits say. And, I am sure it would not stand up to a steady diet of resizing my 30-06 brass full length for my garands. But for jobs that are low pressure/work, the open front is really quite nice.
Buy a good press the first time as failure to do so will result in buying a second ( and spending twicw as much ).
I have a 20+yr old rock crush unit and it's still going strong... starting off with a single stage is good to learn on and will do pistol AND rifle.
<that I have is do generally all presses accept the same dies/shell holders >
Most I've seen are standard and interchangable.
Alright. Thanks for all the input. There is a gun show next weekend that I'll be attending and there is usually a host of reloading equipment at it so hopefully I'll be able to find a good deal, possibly on a Rock chucker or the like in good used condition. I would just go ahead and buy the small Lee on amazon but after thought, tommac you are right, I'm going to need an all duty press eventually so I might as well spend themoney and get a nice one from the start.
It's good to know that dies interchange, I was very curious.
sqlbullet, also good to know. The largest rifle ill be loading for in the conceivable future is .308. Sounds like the plan of buying something heavier duty from the start is a pretty good one.
On amazon they have the carbide 4 die set for .40sw/10mm for less than 50 bucks. I think I'll also acquire that and a shell holder set so that If a nice used press turns up at the show next weekend I'll be ready to knock out some primers! It comes with one of the factory crimp dies so I'll be able to take the_shadow's guidance and turn it into a sizer ;D
Great video link btw shadow, thanks! I enjoyed watching it. The guy looks like he has a pretty nice set up.
BT8850, You're welcome, I have helped many people get started in this hobby and have been loading for 35 years. I have also learn things that has even helped me make even better ammo.
Have a look at this kit and read about all the stuff that comes with it, before you buy a used setup piece by piece. This kit sometimes is on sale for under $300 and has a $50 rebate from RCBS...If it were me I'd wait for the sale price and the rebate...
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/937051/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-master-single-stage-press-kit (http://www.midwayusa.com/product/937051/rcbs-rock-chucker-supreme-master-single-stage-press-kit)
Here is the rebate, from RCBS. http://www.rcbs.com/pdf/RC399_2014RCBSrebate_FINAL.PDF (http://www.rcbs.com/pdf/RC399_2014RCBSrebate_FINAL.PDF)
Here is a Lyman kit http://www.opticsplanet.com/lyman-crusher-expert-kit-quot-deluxe-quot.html (http://www.opticsplanet.com/lyman-crusher-expert-kit-quot-deluxe-quot.html)
So take these things into consideration as you shop around. Good luck!
The kits can be a good way to get the most for yr money ( esp with a rebate/sale)...
But, out of that kit I'd keep in mind a couple extra items, pick them up when you can. ( you already mentioned tumbler )
1) caliper - not expensive ( prob about $30 ) but needed for proper measurment
2) digital scale - I find it so much easier, esp needed is one that can zero out ( to weigh a case with powder and result is powder weight )
3) a max case gauge - yes you can use a barrel, but a max gauge ( as in the vid ) is handy and made to the specs of the case size
While waiting to collect all, READ! and ask!
^^^ yes, absolutely put those on the list when you get the money, and i would also add a chronograph as well
Thanks again for the heads up Shadow, everyone loves rebates/saving money. Comparing the Lyman and RCBS kits, I like the fact that the case trimmer comes with the lyman, and also with the Lyman i'm not paying for things I already have or can easily make ie allen wrench tool and cartridge holder. The RCBS comes with the hand priming tool, do you guys use one extensively?
Also, as far as weighing powder, would you reccomend solely a digital scale or the balance type scale? I ultimately want to know how to use both so I'm not relying just one. If digital, any reccomendations on an accurate reasonably priced one? Shadow I know you use one alot as shown in the pull downs, are you happy with it?
As far as caliper, that's something I do have and it seems to be working fairly consistently for the things I have measured.
Max case gauge is something I may be able to get for free, at my job we have an extremely large machine shop and I have a few people that work up there that owe me favors :D well see how that works out when the time comes. If I do have it made, I'll post pictures.
Lastly, reading on the subject sounds great, I try to research just about everything I do before I jump in. That said, any recommendations? As always, free or low priced quality literature is a bonus!
Hand priming tool is a blessing for many of my projects, I have several...RCBS, LEE hand held types.
Scales, I don't trust many of the electronics based on communications and personal experiences. I trust my RCBS 5-10 balance beam for 35 years, comparing to my digital they both agree when the digital is stable. I have a cheap Frankford Arsenal digital and I know it can drift with time, it's limitations is such that it only reads out the even numbered tents, 0.0, 0.2, 0.4, 0.6, 0.8. Now I will say it is great at finding the unknown weights faster, such as actual bullet weights, unknown powder charge weights, casing weights.
Caliper, you can get the Stainless Steel digitals at Harbor freight for reasonable prices sometimes $10 on sale with readouts to the 0.0000" or 0.0005" plenty good enough for handloading. Even the cheap plastic ones that come with the kits are useable for reference if you understand their shortcomings with the dial indicator.
Case gauge...I thought things were going well till I got Glocked brass! They were expanded very far down the casing at the extractor cut even, but using the case gauge showed that even the RCBS sizing die was not touching that area, because of the inner radius of the carbide ring and the space occupied by the shell holders. Answer for me was using the LEE FCD with the just removed as a "pass-Thru" die system to recondition this issue.
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/IMG_0895_zpsbabb92ca.jpg)
I don't remember seeing a loading manual with the Lyman kit, Lyman has good manuals but the Rock Chucker Kit comes with a great manual even though some loading data is limited to Speer bullets, it has worked with equal weight bullets from other makers. The Speer Manual 14 has 1150 pages of info.
Right now on the magazine racks where the sell gun magazines you can find the hodgdon 2014 loading manual magazine, also a great reference for $9, even though there is plenty data located at the powder manufactures websites it is great to have non-electronic publications to compare notes!
I lived without a Chronograph for years but it has become a great and useful tool in my range equipment! ;D
Everything cost money, you can spend tons if you want, I live on limited funds but the equipment I have gathered, some 35 years old, is still used every handloading secession! I am one who works on the cheap, searching out deals and even used items as needed! 8)
Quote from: BT8850 on January 11 2014 11:53:30 AM MST
snip...RCBS comes with the hand priming tool, do you guys use one extensively?
would you reccomend solely a digital scale or the balance type scale?
snip
Max case gauge is something I may be able to get for free, at my job we have an extremely large machine shop and I have a few people that work up there that owe me favors
snip
try to research just about everything I do before I jump in. That said, any recommendations? As always, free or low priced quality literature is a bonus!
Some like the hand primer, some don't... remember to use it the cases have to be deprimed first anyway. I only hand prime on a few rounds I want perfect... otherwise it's on the press.
It is good to have both scales.. the balance is slower but can be more accurate ( over lower digital scale ). Mostly I use the digital scale to check the powder drop on the progressive every 20 rounds... the zero option comes in handy as you can weight the case, zero the scale, get a powder drop and re-weigh to get the powder weight alone... down side is many ($30-50) are accurate to 2/10 of a grain so your working with a +/-.... not a problem when making target low power loads. For high end loads, each one gets weighed on the balance scale for safety.
As to the gauge... I picked mine up used on ebay for $12.... new they're $19-20. A set of calipers may run $60. Prob not worth the man-hours to have it made...tho go for it if free.
When you start to load, after you pick yr bullet and powder, you'll find diff loading books show different max powder loads ( older books seem to run hotter ) due to legal/powder formula changes /etc... remember most will show max loads so start 10% lower and work up the rounds ( I do 10-20 each ) each set .1 to .2 increase in powder charge so I have maybe 5 sets of rounds (10% down to max)... test this looking for pressure signs as powder amounts go up and how accurate and how fast if a chrono... don't go over max , but with some guns you'll stop below max. Sum up-- go slow, load safe.
Quote from: The_Shadow on January 11 2014 01:20:37 PM MST
snip...Case gauge...I thought things were going well till I got Glocked brass! They were expanded very far down the casing at the extractor cut even, but using the case gauge showed that even the RCBS sizing die was not touching that area, ...snip...!
I use a stock glock and standard Lee sizer/deprimer for just 10mm ( not 40/10 )... the cases fit 100% in the gauge after sizing... But I guess it may have to do with the lower power loading and maybe the dia of my glock chamber. ( fairly new g3 made in 09-13 ).
I've heard they've gotten better/more support over the years.
Need to be able to knock down rounds that are too close to the edge so you don't feel tempted to send them down range. Inertia hammer type are reasonable.
Greg
Quote from: Geeman on January 11 2014 05:55:37 PM MST
snip.. Inertia hammer type are reasonable.
yes, have used it often enough! :)
Quote from: tommac919 on January 11 2014 03:14:34 PM MST
Quote from: The_Shadow on January 11 2014 01:20:37 PM MST
snip...Case gauge...I thought things were going well till I got Glocked brass! They were expanded very far down the casing at the extractor cut even, but using the case gauge showed that even the RCBS sizing die was not touching that area, ...snip...!
I use a stock glock and standard Lee sizer/deprimer for just 10mm ( not 40/10 )... the cases fit 100% in the gauge after sizing... But I guess it may have to do with the lower power loading and maybe the dia of my glock chamber. ( fairly new g3 made in 09-13 ).
I've heard they've gotten better/more support over the years.
I deal with many range brass, stuff shot from many different pistols and even the HK MP-5 10mm over my years of dealing with the 10mm and even the 40S&W, 357Sig and 9x25Dillon. The chamber of the S&W is way tighter than any Glock including mine. The LWD 357Sig and 9x25Dillon conversion barrels are almost as tight as the Lyman case gauge I own. When dealing with chambers this tight you will see the effects. "Pass-Thru" sizing has had many benefits as it reconditions my brass, yes it is yet another step but it has been worth the effort and even tightening primer pockets just a little as I perform the procedure.
Best benefit is more reliable feeding... 8)
<and even tightening primer pockets >
now that I haven't thought of...
And yes, the glocks are very loose, Known fact.
Sorry for the delay, haven't had enough online time as i'd like, I've been working some overtime to get some cash together for this stuff/the glock. Lots of great information and advice, thanks for the replies so far! I've read them all and am absorbing all the info, hope no one is offended by me being too lazy to individually quote and reply! :-X
I have been getting antsy and want to take some primers out of some 40sw brass I have to get them ready to clean. Does anyone appose the punch/ wood block/hammer method for removing primers until I get a press squared away or is it not a good idea?
Also, what do you guys use to clean your brass? What point in time do you usually clean brass? ie before/after depriming/sizing?
<what do you guys use to clean your brass? What point in time do you usually clean brass? ie before/after depriming/sizing?>
You'll get diff answers with this...
But, for me and target rounds , I just dump them in a vibrating hopper filled with corn cob ( cheap from pet supply ), let them run a few hours and remove. I check the cases to make sure no cob inside and condition.
After check they go in the cleaned/fired prev bucket. I don't clean the primer pockets, just run them on the progressive press.
For the few rounds I make up special, its usu with new brass... or I'll clean them with corn cob and brass cleaner dumped in, deprime and then also clean the primer pockets.
If you want to deprime with a punch, you will need to drill a relief hole in the block of wood (1/4" deep at least) to allow the primer a place to go. If you want to get fancy, get a spade bit about the size of the case rim 0.425" or slightly bigger and make a shallow pocket about 3/32" deep to allow you case to center in, then drill the deeper hole for the primer to drop into in that center.
I have used old screwdrivers and even long screws to make depriming punches, be careful as they need to be strong but if too tight they can get stuck in the flash hole. CCI and Speer brass may have smaller flash holes! :o
I use a vibrating tumbler with corn cob media to clean my brass, adding a few drops of (1/4 teaspoon) of charcoal lighter fluid (helps cut the carbon) let it run prior to placing brass inside, and few 1" squares of blue shop towel will collect the dust and debris. I was using well used dryer sheets but one that wasn't used well enough made a gooey mess. 3 to 4 hours usually cleans very well.
Seems that you guys are in agreement on the corn cob/vibratory setup and have a similar process. Seems that thats about the most popular, i'd assume probably the cheapest also. Never would have thought of the shop towels, interesting. I was hoping someone would be using the stainless steel pin/wet tumbling method so I could pry their secrets. Can't decide if the higher start up cost would be worth it.
Tommac what brass cleaner do you use? Everyone loves super shiny brass, myself included!
Quote from: The_Shadow on January 13 2014 09:48:00 AM MST
I have used old screwdrivers and even long screws to make depriming punches
Doesnt sounds like too bad of an idea, i've got a couple laying around with broken or twisted ends etc. that I could make use of.
I've taken a couple of primers out before, just used a long 1/16" punch and set it primer down on a piece of c channel that had a big enough hole in it and knocked em out. I wasn't sure if this somewhat crude method had any setbacks or frown upons. One was a piece of CBC/magtech .308 brass and it had like a crimped primer. From my small amount of research you only really see crimped primers on military stuff?
Shadow Thats interesting about the flash holes, do you see alot of variation from brand to brand or is it mostly just with CCI and Speer? I have a fair amount of CCI, speer not so much, most of the stuff that I plan to work with at the time being will be Federal.
The worst seem to be the CCI and Speer 357Sig with the smallest flash holes but have seen others cartridges calibers from them. You will want to be sure you have no berdan primed cases, (two small flash holes offset) these can break your depriming pins!
LEE still makes some hand tools/dies for various cartridges that do not use in a press to size and load with for many cartridges, this includes a steel base cup to set the casings in to deprime with a punch and hammer, those punches for rifle are the proper size for the insides of the case necks, to straighten them and make them round from the inside during the depriming operation.
Quote from: BT8850 on January 13 2014 12:24:38 PM MST
what brass cleaner do you use? Everyone loves super shiny brass, myself included!
Its a Red Rouge brass polish... when I want them real shiny, I throw in a spoonful ( with the cob corn )... prob any mild abrasive powder would work.
Good to know on the red rouge, i've already got some for my buffing wheel.
Also that's cool to know that they make stuff for guys that want to do it ALL as much by hand as possible. Interesting.
With regard to the Berdan primers, I'm sure they can be a pain when one slips through. When scouring the ground at my range I usually mistakenly pick up some sort of surplus 9mm cases that have Berdan primers in em. Idk if they are brass or not, but I pitch them any how! The sealant around the primers usually gives them away.
Another question I had is at what point in time do you guys inspect and sort your brass as far as good enough to reload or "scrap"? Before/after cleaning? before/after Sizing? And what types of cases do you typically throw out? I'd assume ones that can't be conditioned with the pass through sizing, obviously cracked or split cases are no good, what about ones that have been stepped on etc?
Quote from: BT8850 on January 14 2014 05:35:42 AM MST
Another question I had is at what point in time do you guys inspect and sort your brass as far as good enough to reload or "scrap"? Before/after cleaning? before/after Sizing? And what types of cases do you typically throw out? I'd assume ones that can't be conditioned with the pass through sizing, obviously cracked or split cases are no good, what about ones that have been stepped on etc?
Everytime I pick up or touch a piece brass, as it is worked in any operation with the dies (look listen and feel), it is inspected!
Hey but I am anal about my handloading! :o SAFETY FIRST! ;D
Good point, Can't ever be too careful! Nothing wrong with being anal about reloading, given the potential for tradgedy surrounding the act.
Another question I have (they pile up fast), what would be a good powder to start with? Shadow I know you've worked with quite a few. I'll initially be loading 10mm and 40sw so a powder that would work well for both medium powered 10mm practice loads and similar 40sw loads would be great. Also a powder that would measure well and get me the most rounds per pound for practice with the 1006 and soon to have G20. I don't know much about powder but am slowly learning through the pull downs.
Would like to load 180g bullets to about 1050-1100fps.
The powder I have used for a long time and still good for me is Blue Dot...
In 10mm for the 180 gr. 10.2 grains to 10.4 grains are great target loads COL 1.2500"
In 40S&W for the 180 gr. 8.2 grains to 8.4 grains are great target loads COL 1.1250"
Top end loads can be had with Blue Dot, LongShot, IMR800X, Power Pistol, AA#9, AA#7, a NEW Powder showing is the "NEW CFE from Hodgdon, but I haven't had the chance to work with it as of yet. It is on my list to test its performance!
There are many loads of differing potential and some of the ones listed in the pull-down section are above most all manuals.
The most flexible manual I could suggest is the Lyman 49th to cover a broad range of bullet types and weights.
The Speer manuals are geared toward their own bullets but I have used that data with many other bullet makes in the same weights.
Go to each powder makers websites and download their data in the PDF formats and write them for a hard copy to be mailed out to you. This with be great reference and up to date info! 8)
I"ve been using Titegroup and HS6 with good results with an Xtreme 180g HP and Federal primers. Actually shot a much better score in a recent match with a G29 than I did with a G17.
I don't load hot loads but soft to medium, whichever is the most accurate and controllable. For self defense I use Hornady or Underwood.
Quote from: BT8850 on January 14 2014 08:13:07 AM MST
what would be a good powder to start with?
Would like to load 180g bullets to about 1050-1100fps.
yes, the $64k question.... Prob the best answer is what can you get right now!
Actually, there are at least 4 good powders for 10mm ( tho many more ) Blue Dot, Longshot, AA#9 and 800x are a good start.
Some meter better than others so that's also a consideration. There are also the 'classic' powders that work well.
Most of my loading is done on a progressive press. So, I want a powder that meters fairly well, fills more than half the case, and gets a good mid range power range.
I use Blue Dot now as 1) I have it 2) its a pretty good powder for 10mm.
Meter on an auto type press can be hard at times, so the BD ends up max +/- .2 grain... this may seem alot ( and can be ) but if loading at 10.2gr with the max at 11gr, the rounds can fall in 10.0-10.4 area ( mostly lower when off, rounds generally fall 10.1-10.2 ) but still plenty of a safety factor.
The BD with 10.2 comes in at about 1100+ fps.....good start load is around 10gr / 180fmj
I remember it's 7000 gr per pound so 10gr loads makes 700 bullets per
Also BDot fills more than half the case...so, 1) it's easy to see there's powder in the case before head placement, 2) a mistake double charge will be obv as powder spills over the place.
Quote from: tommac919 on January 14 2014 09:09:23 AM MST
Blue Dot, Longshot, AA#9 and 800x are a good start
The BD with 10.2 comes in at about 1100+ fps.....good start load is around 10gr / 180fmj
I remember it's 7000 gr per pound so 10gr loads makes 700 bullets per
Also BDot fills more than half the case...so, 1) it's easy to see there's powder in the case before head placement, 2) a mistake double charge will be obv as powder spills over the place.
Those 4 powders seem to be a popular theme in the pull downs. I guess you really cant argue with it. Blue Dot seems like it would be pretty good for my purposes, I'd imagine being so popular and widely usable that it's hard to find right now! Any tips on buying powder? I would assume buying it online would only be beneficial if ordering a lot to offset the shipping, I know I've read on here about primers being expensive to ship. Looking on gunbot I see cabelas has Longshot . . . What did you mean by "classic" powders?
Quote from: The_Shadow on January 14 2014 08:36:33 AM MST
The powder I have used for a long time and still good for me is Blue Dot...
In 10mm for the 180 gr. 10.2 grains to 10.4 grains are great target loads COL 1.2500"
In 40S&W for the 180 gr. 8.2 grains to 8.4 grains are great target loads COL 1.1250"
The most flexible manual I could suggest is the Lyman 49th to cover a broad range of bullet types and weights.
Go to each powder makers websites and download their data in the PDF formats and write them for a hard copy to be mailed out to you. This with be great reference and up to date info! 8)
I just printed off couple of sheets for 10mm and 40sw, hogdon, alliant, accurate - hogdons undoubetly being the most extensive . . . I didn't realize there was so much for free! Thanks for the heads up! Im hoping that some equipment turns up here at the coming gun show, perhaps some manuals to be had.
Earlier I mentioned about primers, is there much variation between brands for the same size primer? I have a feeling right now its another "what you can get" type situation . . .
Quote from: BT8850 on January 14 2014 10:38:36 AM MST
What did you mean by "classic" powders?
bullseye, unique, 2400.
Favorite powders in decending order for me.
Pistol Power
Longshot
800X (weighed charges only for this one!!!)
I use mostly CCI 300 Primers
Greg
Quote from: Geeman on January 14 2014 07:53:47 PM MST
Favorite powders in decending order for me.
Pistol Power
Longshot
800X (weighed charges only for this one!!!)
I use mostly CCI 300 Primers
Greg
Seems to be a common theme. Do you guys buy your powder/primers online or typically wait for them to show up at local shops, shows, etc? Just don't know if it will be cost effective
Quote from: BT8850 on January 15 2014 06:19:28 AM MST
. Do you guys buy your powder/primers online or typically wait for them to show up at local shops, shows, etc? Just don't know if it will be cost effective
I try to buy local for 2 reasons, 1) support the local guy 2) no hazmat fee , even tho price may be a bit higher
BUT, sometimes you just can't get local so it's off to the Net. When you buy online, try and buy the most of primers&powder you can as the haz-mat shipping fee is averaged to a lower cost.
( I think it's $25 if you buy one pound or 10, primers are hazmat too. Others may know the actual price/limit )
I typically buy pistol powder locally. Rifle powder I buy in with a couple of friends online. We generally wait for a good deal on pull-down bulk powder and then buy between 50 and 100 lbs.
I burn a lot of Blue Dot in 10mm. And a lot of Unique. Unique is for plinking loads. Very economical, good enough performance for a paper or can, and the loads are light recoil which is good for teaching friends and children to shoot.
AA#9 is probably one of my favorite performance powders in 10mm, but it is not economical to shoot. At least around here, Accurate powders are a little more per lb than Alliant powders, and you use 50%-60% more #9 than Blue Dot. #9 provides an extra 25-50 fps of performance on book, and it completely fills the case.
Quote from: sqlbullet on January 15 2014 07:53:32 AM MST
We generally wait for a good deal on pull-down bulk powder and then buy between 50 and 100 lbs.
AA#9 is probably one of my favorite performance powders in 10mm, but it is not economical to shoot. At least around here, Accurate powders are a little more per lb than Alliant powders, and you use 50%-60% more #9 than Blue Dot. #9 provides an extra 25-50 fps of performance on book, and it completely fills the case.
Good to know, will keep that in mind should my need for that much arise. Im surprised you don't have the BATF knocking on your door buying 100lbs of powder privately LOL!
With regard to the AA#9 filling the case all the way, what's the benefit of a full case? Soley insurance that you don't double charge?
Quote from: tommac919 on January 15 2014 07:29:23 AM MST
I try to buy local for 2 reasons, 1) support the local guy 2) no hazmat fee , even tho price may be a bit higher
BUT, sometimes you just can't get local so it's off to the Net. When you buy online, try and buy the most of primers&powder you can as the haz-mat shipping fee is averaged to a lower cost.
( I think it's $25 if you buy one pound or 10, primers are hazmat too. Others may know the actual price/limit )
I'm all for supporting the local guy as long as they aren't a part of the current gouging trend, which happens to be all too common around my parts. There are a FEW around me that have
slightly higher than average prices and I'm more than happy to pay the slight markup to keep them in honest business but the ones with 45$ boxes of Tulammo 9mm? No way!
I'll keep the hazmat fee in mind though, sounds like the same ones you get when buying loaded ammo. For now I'll just try to buy a pound at a time local I suppose.
Also, with primers, are all brands of the same size primers the same? For instance will one brand large pistol primer produce more pressure, cleaner/dirtier burn, etc than another brand using the same powder?
Quote from: BT8850 on January 15 2014 12:01:29 PM MST
With regard to the AA#9 filling the case all the way, what's the benefit of a full case? Soley insurance that you don't double charge?
If your getting decent pressure with a load, double it and it will blow the chamber up!!! I don't use any powder in any caliber that don't fill the brass at least half way.
In addition to that, a decent fill (80% of the volume under the seated bullet) helps with uniform ignition.
Quote from: BT8850 on January 15 2014 12:01:29 PM MST
Also, with primers, are all brands of the same size primers the same? For instance will one brand large pistol primer produce more pressure, cleaner/dirtier burn, etc than another brand using the same powder?
Primers are just like every component when it comes to reloading. If you change one component, back down the load and work up again. If you are pushing the limits, as some of the hotter tear downs listed here, and light them with a magnum primer instead of a standard one, the results can be, and likely will be bad.
My favorite two primers are CCI 300 and Federal 150's, mainly because they are reliable and inexpensive. Its been a long time since I saw the Federal available anywhere, so I'm down to the CCI ones now.
Greg
Quote from: BT8850 on January 15 2014 12:01:29 PM MST
With regard to the AA#9 filling the case all the way, what's the benefit of a full case? Soley insurance that you don't double charge?
There is the insurance issue. Not just of a double charge, but as a compressed load, I am not sure it is possible to get a dangerous charge #9 in a 10mm case and still seat a bullet, at least with 200 grain slugs.
The real reason I like it is the rule of thumb...the fuller the case, the more consistent the ignition, the better the accuracy. I like CCI primers, but have used others when I get a really good deal.
Quote from: Geeman on January 16 2014 05:02:08 AM MST
I don't use any powder in any caliber that don't fill the brass at least half way.
Sounds like a good rule to go by, I'll definitely keep that in mind!
Thanks for all the input fellas. Tommac sent me a couple of pretty good links and in combination with this here thread I've learned alot so far. I'll keep you all updated. Hopefully I'll be able to find something good at the show! Also, appologies for the delay.
Just to update, I was able to buy a pound of Longshot and 1k small pistol and 1k large pistol primers at the show over the weekend. Whooo hooo! I wasn't able to find any blue dot, most of what was there was rifle powder so I figured I can start with Longshot. Time to find a press I suppose
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/749997/hornady-lock-n-load-classic-single-stage-press-kit?cm_vc=ProductFinding
Any input on the Hornady kit? Midway has it on sale for 274.99 plus free shipping on orders over 150, seems to be a good deal. The only thing that would concern me is it says the press stroke is 1/4" shorter than the Rock chucker. Wouldn't be a huge deal at this point in time but if I get into loading longer rifle cases it may pose an issue. Also, not sure about the quick change die bushings, seems kind of gimmicky?
To me the swing arms look sort of cheap and may wear out at the pivots...
The bushings are for quick change of the dies, instead of having to screw the die in or out for the length of the threads. No big deal...
That 1/4" may only be an issue with the longer Magnum cartridges and / or long bullets...
Just my observations...but I still like the RCBS it was on sale a while back and may be again soon.
Alright. Thanks for the input. I didn't know if anyone had experience with Hornady's equipment. You're right, the Rock Chucker kit was I think 299.99 the other week, I did notice that, if only the tax money had been available then :(