I work for an organization that is one of the premier security companies in the world. Mostly we do undercover loss prevention/shoplifter apprehension, but also a lot of uniformed security work and undercover protection details for celebrities and VIP's. I am the district manager of loss prevention here in the Seattle area.
Company policy requires a 9mm or .40 S&W for carry on duty. However, due to my length of service with the company, my prior law enforcement experience and military time, the owner of the company issued me 3 boxes of 10mm 175 grain Silvertips and authorized me to carry my Witness.
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DANG! That IS really cool! 8)
Cool. Congrats.
Very nice of them. Congrats.
That is awesome 8) wish more would carry the 10mm and get support from their employers, it truly is the most versatile round out there.
Personally i would not carry that gun you posted for self protection or protection of others,esp since it's the baseline Witness.You mentioned the Witness guns you have are not working out so well.No offense,you did bring up your Witness guns were failing.
Quote from: pacapcop on July 29 2012 01:08:56 AM MDT
Personally i would not carry that gun you posted for self protection or protection of others,esp since it's the baseline Witness.You mentioned the Witness guns you have are not working out so well.No offense,you did bring up your Witness guns were failing.
I have a match barrel and slide on the way from EAA, hopefully this solves my feed problems. If not I'm switching to a Glock 20.
My professional opinion:
If you are carrying on the job, don't use anything but 100% OEM. If you have to "fix" a weapon to carry it reliably, DON'T carry it. Your boss (probably) chose the Winchester ST rounds for a reason, which would be consistent with any reasonable department/agency. Off duty and self/personal defense is one thing. The professional responsibility for others is completely different. An aftermarket barrel, or any modifications, in a duty weapon is taboo. Not only for reliability purposes, but public perception (which is a responsibility by anyone charged with public protection, government or private). 12 people will agree, if you ever have to ask them.
Quote from: DM1906 on July 29 2012 02:14:55 AM MDT
My professional opinion:
If you are carrying on the job, don't use anything but 100% OEM. If you have to "fix" a weapon to carry it reliably, DON'T carry it. Your boss (probably) chose the Winchester ST rounds for a reason, which would be consistent with any reasonable department/agency. Off duty and self/personal defense is one thing. The professional responsibility for others is completely different. An aftermarket barrel, or any modifications, in a duty weapon is taboo. Not only for reliability purposes, but public perception (which is a responsibility by anyone charged with public protection, government or private). 12 people will agree, if you ever have to ask them.
I wouldn't consider what I ordered from EAA "aftermarket." They are merely upgrades, a higher end barrel and slide. These are made by the same company that made the original firearm.
Quote from: Grim Reaper on July 29 2012 02:22:33 AM MDT
Quote from: DM1906 on July 29 2012 02:14:55 AM MDT
My professional opinion:
If you are carrying on the job, don't use anything but 100% OEM. If you have to "fix" a weapon to carry it reliably, DON'T carry it. Your boss (probably) chose the Winchester ST rounds for a reason, which would be consistent with any reasonable department/agency. Off duty and self/personal defense is one thing. The professional responsibility for others is completely different. An aftermarket barrel, or any modifications, in a duty weapon is taboo. Not only for reliability purposes, but public perception (which is a responsibility by anyone charged with public protection, government or private). 12 people will agree, if you ever have to ask them.
I wouldn't consider what I ordered from EAA "aftermarket." They are merely upgrades, a higher end barrel and slide. These are made by the same company that made the original firearm.
I understand what you're saying, and don't want to sound like I'm trying to convince you of anything, but.....
Aftermarket is anything the weapon wasn't originally equipped with, that affects the function or ballistics of a weapon. "Match Grade" is pretty hard to explain. All of my firearm upgrades are "match grade", in a manner of speaking. I've been the hot seat, and when questioned about my equipment, "this is what was issued" was an easy answer. If you are ever in this situation, they WILL ask the question. Of course, your situation won't be as critical, but it might. Like I said, just an opinion.
I have a compact that was a problem with FTF/FTE.It was NIB and same as your fullsize in pic.They replaced slide with older squared off one in black and put in a better barrel.Most of the times it cycles,but not all the time.Verdict,gun not up to snuff,period.My Match on the other hand,it cycles all i put in.I carry it off duty and will qualify with it as well for off duty.Same with the G20.Were allowed to qualify with 2 for off duty.Now,would i use a gun in the Witness line in the capacity of employent and protection buisness,id have to say no.Would it work,more than likely as one will certainly know after useing it.However,time tested and proven till present,work related guns are Glocks,Sigs and my guess S&W as well.Theres a reason for that, they work under extreme stress.
The Witness is a nice looking and feeling gun, the one pictured has the contured slide... :-\ I just couldn't bring myself to the Witness yet with all of the horror stories...cracked slides, FTF, FTE and the worst was the customer treatment although it has gotten better. ???
The Glock-29 would be my choice, compact, rugged, reliable and cost effective! The Pearce +0 base pads for the Magazines would be there to provide better support for the pinky finger. Spare parts avalible everywhere! 8)
Then with the New 4gen Glock-20 avalible this would be my consideration for the "full-size" 10mm package for all of the reasons mentioned. ;D
Quote from: DM1906 on July 29 2012 02:39:28 AM MDTI've been the hot seat, and when questioned about my equipment, "this is what was issued" was an easy answer. If you are ever in this situation, they WILL ask the question. Of course, your situation won't be as critical, but it might.
First let me just say I'm well aware you openly stated what you did as opinion. I simply want to comment off what you posted regardless.
I think it's important to note that a perfectly truthful answer to a question the opposition asked is not necessarly a negative. In essence; Just because you've added or changed something to a firearm you intend to have around for self defense purposes doesn't necessarly equal a negative.
One example; Many "improvements" to a firearm can be argued to be safer around all involved. I think this automatic fear that seems to be instilled in so many is based on poor court case examples, that in many cases more than likely also involved poor representation of a lawyer.
An arguement could be made that because someone choose to keep their gun bone-stock, it was a detriment to whatever, compared to "improving" it for various reasons.
Can anything be twisted? Sure. But isn't it your lawyer's job to untwist it? I think so. I'm not saying don't be afraid to go to extremes. Then again you could pretty easily argue 99 out of 100 people have with their various black rifle platforms. It's certainly endless what people change and add to them! Is nobody ever considering using those for self defense once they've change how they originally showed up brand new in a box? What about the building their's from the ground up?
I think common sense here could go along way with most mods. Just my differing opinion.
I don't think I will ever warm up to a 10mm Glock. Shame :(
You never know. Lots to recommend a Glock. Give it time. :P
Quote from: Intercooler on August 02 2012 09:30:11 AM MDT
I don't think I will ever warm up to a 10mm Glock. Shame :(
Your loss. Arguably the best 10mm pistol in production today, whether you like the "looks" or not.
I would of never touched a Glock if it was not for the 10mm round.Glad i did.And bar none,thee best CCW in 10mm,imho.It's made to rumble.
Quote from: pacapcop on August 02 2012 10:55:25 AM MDT
I would of never touched a Glock if it was not for the 10mm round.Glad i did.And bar none,thee best CCW in 10mm,imho.It's made to rumble.
Same for me, I had a 23 about 10 years ago, got disgusted with it, sold it, would've never bought another except I wanted the strongest 10mm out there. After owning several other 10's and being dissatisfied for various reasons, I picked up a 21SF to put a 10mm top end on. Now, that 21SF is one of my favorite pistols, it's as accurate as my best 1911 45, with twice the capacity. I like it enough that now I bought a gen4 19 as well. I still claim to not be a Glock fan, but I'm starting to like them more and more, against my will. ;D
What makes them the toughest out there?
I held a g20c and HATED the way it fit in my hand. So if other g20 (not sure about the sf or the non c version as I have not held them) fit my hand like this one did I will be happy to never own one.
Quote from: Dakotared on August 02 2012 05:57:17 PM MDT
I held a g20c and HATED the way it fit in my hand. So if other g20 (not sure about the sf or the non c version as I have not held them) fit my hand like this one did I will be happy to never own one.
They'll "feel" the same in your hand. They're the same, except the "C" is a little lighter up front. If you didn't like the feel of the 20C, you won't like the 20 of the same generation. Try an SF model. The grips are different. You can go as far as custom fitting them, or try previous/later generations. The 2/3/4 gen grips are all different in some way.
If you don't like them, it isn't a crime. Lots of others to choose from.
Quote from: Intercooler on August 02 2012 04:34:25 PM MDT
What makes them the toughest out there?
The slide is engineered with far fewer stress focus points than say, a 1911 slide. It is thicker and it has a stronger top lug system.
Plus the polymer frame readily accepts flex. Steel, not so much. You add up all the engineering aspects of the whole package and it is as if it was designed from the ground up to simply handle abuse like no other. And of course it is well proven and time tested that it does. And if a piece does break, it doesn't break the bank to replace that piece. I think just the simplicity of the Glock design probably helps out too in little ways one would normally consider.
The 1911 and the Glock are two great revolutionary designs. I won't be surprised at all if they are still staples in another 100 years.
Quote from: REDLINE on August 04 2012 02:28:15 PM MDT
it is as if it was designed from the ground up to simply handle abuse like no other.
It was. Unlike other designs, the G20 was designed from the ground up specifically for the 10mm. The 45 auto version came after the 10mm Glock, where most other designs use a 45 Auto platform modified to fit the 10mm.
And not to leave it out, similarly the G29 overall platform being designed first and foremost for the 10mm Auto.
They certainly are premier platforms for the 10mm.