Would the Glock 20 better handle the hotter loads ,than the full size steel Witness ? I'm asking this because EAA advises not to use the hotter commercial rounds , like Buffalo Bore .
TIA
I'm a little bias ;D but yes the Witness is better with hot rounds. First thing is barrel chamber support, second is spring/guide rod selection and one big one is a hammer you can also do things with to slow things down. The Gen 4's are a mixed bag wherever you read.
I have both (Limited Pro instead of steel) and its not close. The Witness will shoot hotter loads and the first pressure sign seems to be the primer falling out after some flattening with lesser loads.
Glock 20 shows increasing case expansion, then smiles, then elastic billowing at the feed ramp as loads are increased. If you take a load that smiles in a glock and fire it in a Witness, you will see no sign at all of high pressure.
Greg
I do not know which is better for the hotter loads, but the G20 is plenty tough. The same frame is used with the 460 Rowland conversion.
Buffalo Bore and Underwood are suppose to be loaded within SAAMI pressure specifications (37,500psi) . If they are, both guns should be able to handle them without problems.
.
Quote from: my_old_glock on April 17 2015 04:25:58 PM MDT
Buffalo Bore and Underwood are suppose to be loaded within SAAMI pressure specifications (37,500psi) . If they are, both guns should be able to handle them without problems.
Underwood 155g XTP loads from a G20.
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-vFmRMgg/0/XL/i-vFmRMgg-XL.jpg)
Witness shoots 'em with no issues.
Greg
Thank you Intercooler , Geeman , and my-old-glock for your quick replies . I have an EAA witness 999200 , and added the Henning guide rod , and the heavier Springco springs , and I am still worried about a steady diet of hot loads . I have been thinking about getting a Glock 20 for the hot loads . I love the Witness , and it is my EDC . I was a 45 ACP guy until I shot the 10mm . I now think it is the best all around handgun round (IMO).
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/15616
That one? You aren't going to bust that! You have the Match frame, square slide and Combat hammer (same style the Hunter uses). Is it fixed or adjustable rear sight? If it's the adjustable style, you might have one of those bust at some point. Just contact EAA and have them warranty it at that point.
It has a fixed rear sight .
Real solid then!
Why does EAA say not to fire such rounds as Buffalo Bore , Underwood , ect. ?
I never read anything in the manuals stating those company names. Does yours actually say that?
If it does, can you post a picture of it? That's interesting!
They offer a lifetime warranty to the original purchaser. I'm sure they would rather everyone shoot powder-puff ammo and lessen their chances of anything happening under warranty. Most of the time anything you might bust can be fixed better or upgraded better by yourself! My old Match went through hell and back shooting bombs and still looked like new when I sold it. My Hunter (now Super Match ;D) is on it's second facelift still shooting the hard stuff. The weak link is really the adjustable sights with any caliber >9mm coming from competition shooter reports.
It stated not to shoot +P rounds , so I called EAA , and asked if that ammo was OK to use . The girl on the phone told me Buffalo Bore , and Underwood was +P ammo . I told her it doesn't say +P on the box , but she insisted it was +P ammo .
Those same ladies wouldn't know a bullet from a cartridge. It's loaded to the upper end of SAAMI, but 10mm doesn't have a +P anything rating. Put the parts in for the high slide velocity rounds and enjoy ;D
Thank you , I feel a lot better now .
Tomcat, if it makes you feel any better I have the same witness as you. I installed the henning guide rod and a set of wolf extra power springs. I have yet to have a problem with a steady diet of underwood 180's
Quote from: Geeman on April 17 2015 05:00:51 PM MDT
Quote from: my_old_glock on April 17 2015 04:25:58 PM MDT
Buffalo Bore and Underwood are suppose to be loaded within SAAMI pressure specifications (37,500psi) . If they are, both guns should be able to handle them without problems.
Underwood 155g XTP loads from a G20.
(http://www.spanielsport.com/photos/i-vFmRMgg/0/XL/i-vFmRMgg-XL.jpg)
Witness shoots 'em with no issues.
Greg
Did you personally shoot those rounds Greg?
I have two Glock 20's, a Gen 3 and a Gen 4, and have fired Underwood extensively. I have not had this happen in either one. This includes the 155 grain XTP.
Quote from: 4949shooter on April 18 2015 03:40:47 AM MDT
Did you personally shoot those rounds Greg?
I have two Glock 20's, a Gen 3 and a Gen 4, and have fired Underwood extensively. I have not had this happen in either one. This includes the 155 grain XTP.
I did. It smiled those seven cases out of 17 shot. It was with a factory stock Gen4 G20, and I even tore down the rounds to check them out. I just went back and check to make sure they weren't 150g Noslers, but were the 155g XTP loading after they transitioned to Longshot powder.
I've had smiles on their 135g Noslers too.
Greg
That's a shame. I guess I got lucky with two well supported stock barrels.
Quote from: fernpatch on April 17 2015 11:20:09 PM MDT
Tomcat, if it makes you feel any better I have the same witness as you. I installed the henning guide rod and a set of wolf extra power springs. I have yet to have a problem with a steady diet of underwood 180's
Thank you fernpatch , I just didn't want to Void my Warranty . The Lady I spoke to on the phone from EAA said if I was to use that ammo. , I would void my warranty . I really don't like dealing with the people at EAA .
I think I would be better off talking to someone from Tanfoglio .
Unless they are using some Super Scientist to tell what you have shot, I wouldn't offer anything up if the time should come. If they ask what you shot... American Eagle 180gr FMJ is a great response ;D The competition guns are being exclusively shot with the likes of 9mm Major. That is basically loading long to fit all the powder possible and increasing the power factor. If you ever bust anything (mine has always been just sights and springs) the Tanfoglio crowd can assist you in getting it fixed up faster and cheaper than sending it to EAA and back.
Thank you very much Sir , for your advice and information . That makes me feel even better .
The only thing I am not crazy about , with my Witness , is the finish . I'm on the saltwater a lot , and would like something more corrosion resistant . Would Cerakote be a good choice ?
This marketing image says yes.
(http://www.redcreektactical.com/images/643_nic_corrosion_proof.jpg)
It is working pretty well on my Witness.
Sqlbullet , Thank you very much , for your help . Have you ever had anything Cerakoted ? If you have how do you like it ?
I had my Hunter frame hard chromed by these guys. They added some custom parts to it in the process and the finish is better than Tanfoglio's job. I highly suggest them based on the work they did for me! They can do about any finish that has ever hit the market as well at reasonable prices.
http://www.apwcogan.com/plating-and-refinishing/finishes-metal-finishes.html
Thank you Intercooler, You have been a lot of help . Do you know of anyone that has had a 10mm Witness ported .
On Brian Enos I have seen a couple. Are you thinking about Magnaporting?
I would just like to know if there is much difference with follow up shots , and if it is worth the cost ?
It usually does make a difference. You usually see that more though in competition pistols.
Is there a BIG DIFFERENCE between the Witness Elite Stock II 600615 , and what I have the 999200 ?
Yup. Frame, hammer, trigger, grip panels, slide, barrel, sights, finish and magwell grip knurling. It's on the Competition frame and all the parts follow suit.
Looks Like I will have to start saving up some money . May be even have to sell my 45 .
I found a Witness Elite Stock II 10mm at a LGS for $840. plus tax , would this be a good deal ?
Yes it would. It seems the norm for it now is $900.
Intercooler , Thank you for your fast reply , and input .
Is the Witness elite stock 2 the same as the witness stock 2 ?
Only one Stock II:
http://eaacorp.com/portfolio-item/witness-elite-stock-2/
Thank you . Will I notice much difference shooting it , from what I'm shooting now ?
The Chicks will dig it ;D
Quote from: Intercooler on April 20 2015 05:00:53 PM MDT
The Chicks will dig it ;D
[/quote
But will it shoot any better than what I have now ?
Probably a tad with the adjustable rear sights and better grip feel.
I may have to part with one of my 45s , and get this one . Thank you Intercooler , for all your help , and info .
Quote from: Tomcat 10 on April 20 2015 03:54:10 PM MDT
I found a Witness Elite Stock II 10mm at a LGS for $840. plus tax , would this be a good deal ?
Just bought mine not long ago. Did extensive search engines including gunwatcher to locate the best deal. Turns out they've gone up now and are out of stock almost everywhere. I paid about that. Jump on it NOW!
Shaneshot , Thank you for the input . I'm going to see what I can do about coming up with the money .
I stick as close to Norma Spec loadings as possible. 180s to 165s between 1300 to 1400 fps. Witness or Glock can run just fine and you will enjoy.
Quote from: pacapcop on April 20 2015 07:10:26 PM MDT
I stick as close to Norma Spec loadings as possible. 180s to 165s between 1300 to 1400 fps. Witness or Glock can run just fine and you will enjoy.
pacapcop ,
Thank you for your reply , and input .