10mm-Auto

Firearms => 10mm semi-auto handguns => Topic started by: scubadds on June 04 2015 09:50:24 AM MDT

Title: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: scubadds on June 04 2015 09:50:24 AM MDT
I am looking hard at a Delta Elite

I started seeing case bulge and KB posts and it got me researching case support.
This article suggests more support of the new DE
http://rangehot.com/got-chocolate-peanut-butter/

I hear varied opinions about DE, I had even considered a full custom Rail thru colt....

Any thoughts on the topic appreciated....Just a thought, if I were to get a full custom Rail 10mm thru Colt (spoke with Brent about it); could I address any issues with either having ramped barrel or another barrel installed? (assuming Colt would do it)....but I don't know what I would request at this point to even ask.....
Thanks
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: sqlbullet on June 04 2015 10:56:07 AM MDT
Consider this cross section:

(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/IMG_0543.jpg)

Compared to this shot of the case support:

(http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e104/Sigarmed1/10mmPressurepics001.jpg)

At least in my minds eye, it appears to me I run out of case head before the case walls are fully supported by the barrel.  The link you post seems to have better support.

However, if we accept the following as true:  There are variations in case head thickness due to manufacturing tolerance.  These variation occur both between cartridges and to a lesser extent around the circumference of a given cartridge.  If a minimum variation aligns with the feed ramp relief portion of the barrel in a hot round, the chances of a KB are increased.

Then, it stands to reason I want to minimize the amount of the cartridge that is aligned with feed ramp relief cut.  A good ramped 1911 barrel does this best.

As far as ramp type.. I prefer Clark/Para/Lissner ramps.  The frame cut is far simpler than the Wilson/Nowlin style ramp, and the Lissner radius makes it plenty strong with no stress focus points.

I would not limit my dialog to Colt.  I would also talk to the Springfield custom shop as they will make 10mm 1911's to order as well.

Personally I would also look long and hard at the STI catalog.  In fact, I think you could buy and STI Edge in 40 and have it reamed to 10mm for far less than a Springer or Colt custom.
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: The_Shadow on June 04 2015 08:52:58 PM MDT
Clarks over here in Louisiana may be an option...http://clarkcustomguns.com/ (http://clarkcustomguns.com/)
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: RubenZ on June 05 2015 10:24:58 AM MDT
I just bought one.  It came in yesterday and honestly I dont see the case support that bad compared to other pics I've seen.  If I remember I'll take pics when I get home from work.
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: RubenZ on June 07 2015 10:49:50 AM MDT
Just a follow up.  I went and shot my brand new Delta and the only ammo I had was the 180 Grain FULL METAL JACKET from Underwood rated at 1350FPS.  Gun had no problems shooting it and the brass looked perfectly fine.  I think I'm going to monitor it and keep shooting it.  See what happens.
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: 4949shooter on June 07 2015 03:25:04 PM MDT
This is good to know Ruben. I am considering a Delta in the future.

Please keep us updated on it.

Thank you
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: scubadds on June 07 2015 03:29:12 PM MDT
Keep us posted, I got spooked by my lgs...
Post us some pics!
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: RubenZ on June 07 2015 07:08:17 PM MDT
I though maybe the newer Delta's have more case support but I'm not sure it looks much different the one above is. It may have more support along the sides of the case though not sure.  I just don't see why mine didn't have a problem with it at all. I checked every brass and none even had the slights bulge etc.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/363/18470794565_b5805745b1_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/u9cDHg)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/u9cDHg) by Ruben Zamora (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rubenzamora/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8898/17961384063_1a2081cfd5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tnbMHz)Delta Elite Barrel (https://flic.kr/p/tnbMHz) by Ruben Zamora (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rubenzamora/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/545/18577440132_a809d8f569_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/uiCeHW)Delta Elite Barrel (https://flic.kr/p/uiCeHW) by Ruben Zamora (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rubenzamora/), on Flickr

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/551/17961205073_ea523026e5_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tnaSvx)Delta Elite Barrel (https://flic.kr/p/tnaSvx) by Ruben Zamora (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rubenzamora/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: dakota1911 on June 11 2015 01:02:30 PM MDT
Nope.  And I looked at one about a week ago in a gun store.  Does not really bother me as I am not trying to shoot hogs or bear with say my 1990 Delta Gold Cup, or even my Dan Wesson, which does have a supported barrel.  I have 44 mag revolvers for that, or better yet rifles.

Still, Handloader mag had a great article talking about special sizing dies to deal with the "Glock Bulge" and that was with 40 S&W.  It was a few months ago and I have it around here somewhere.  Was thinking of getting one for 10mm.
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: Da/Sa Fan on June 13 2015 07:15:06 AM MDT
Fine that you have a .44 magnum to shoot hog loads but I just don't see the point of having a 10mm that shoots .40 S&W loads. What's the sense in that?
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: RubenZ on June 14 2015 10:47:26 AM MDT
Quote from: Da/Sa Fan on June 13 2015 07:15:06 AM MDT
Fine that you have a .44 magnum to shoot hog loads but I just don't see the point of having a 10mm that shoots .40 S&W loads. What's the sense in that?


Who says the Delta only shoots .40S&W.  Thats a bunch of BS. The problem is people using the over powered loads not the standard spec 10mm loads.  Look up any reloading manual for PROPER 10mm Loads and Load them.  The Delta will shoot them all day long.
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: wadcutter on June 23 2015 01:21:45 PM MDT
Quote from: RubenZ on June 14 2015 10:47:26 AM MDT
Quote from: Da/Sa Fan on June 13 2015 07:15:06 AM MDT
Fine that you have a .44 magnum to shoot hog loads but I just don't see the point of having a 10mm that shoots .40 S&W loads. What's the sense in that?


Who says the Delta only shoots .40S&W.  Thats a bunch of BS. The problem is people using the over powered loads not the standard spec 10mm loads.  Look up any reloading manual for PROPER 10mm Loads and Load them.  The Delta will shoot them all day long.

I have to agree with Ruben, There's full power 10mm and then there's Underwood ammo 10mm which is loaded far beyond  the 37,500 psi max for the cartridge. It's not hard to surpass 40 S&W performance with a 10mm and you don't need to beat your gun up to do it.  I think people see the velocity numbers for Underwood ammo and believe that's the norm for the cartridge when it's not.  Underwood isn't using magical powder or bullets to achieve these velocities, they're just loading their ammo hotter than everyone else. There's no law restricting manufacturers from surpassing the maximum specified pressure for ammo.
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: The_Shadow on June 23 2015 02:06:59 PM MDT
I will refer those who are interested to this link about 10mm ammo and SAAMI specs...see the original post and post#1
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/10mm-ammo-history/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/10mm-ammo-history/)
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: The_Shadow on June 23 2015 02:12:44 PM MDT
Also Speer used the Delta Elite 5" for some of their published loadings back in the day.

(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/Speer10mmSupplmentData-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: Wolfie on June 23 2015 04:26:45 PM MDT
I fire the Buffalo Bore 180's out of my Delta with no problems.
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: Raleigh on August 15 2015 04:33:52 PM MDT
This is a bit of an old thread but I thought I would share a pic of a fully supported ramped Wilson barrel.
(http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/1065276/fullsize/fully-supported-barrel.jpg)
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: scubadds on September 08 2015 01:20:09 PM MDT
Is the Wilson barrel for a Delta Elite? (will it fit)

Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: Caflashbob on September 09 2015 12:43:59 AM MDT
I am not recommending anyone exceed any published reloading info but I was testing various loads in my 1990 delta elite gold cup after having kings gun works do considerable mods to the gun brand new.

Worked up 1,000 new starline brass with various loads of unique.  Started at 6 grains then 7.5 then 9.0 which is probably around the buffalo bore loading.

Flattens the head stamps a bit.  No bulges. 

Maybe the brass itself is a factor in the smilies?

Cannot imagine anything the smith did changing this but I have limited knowledge.

did not install the barsto barrel I considered.

Gun is amazingly accurate,  different barrel  bushing.  At the range I shot at the 100 yard side which had a 12"x12" hanging plate which I hit seven shots in a row with some lead wad cutters I had made up.

Geez.  Close enough for me. 

Sorry to digress.  But I recovered 832 empties out of the 1,000 fired and no smilies
Title: Re: Is the DE barrel now "supported"
Post by: Osageid on September 13 2015 09:45:59 AM MDT
Quote from: Caflashbob on September 09 2015 12:43:59 AM MDT
I am not recommending anyone exceed any published reloading info but I was testing various loads in my 1990 delta elite gold cup after having kings gun works do considerable mods to the gun brand new.

Worked up 1,000 new starline brass with various loads of unique.  Started at 6 grains then 7.5 then 9.0 which is probably around the buffalo bore loading.

Flattens the head stamps a bit.  No bulges. 

Maybe the brass itself is a factor in the smilies?

Cannot imagine anything the smith did changing this but I have limited knowledge.

did not install the barsto barrel I considered.

Gun is amazingly accurate,  different barrel  bushing.  At the range I shot at the 100 yard side which had a 12"x12" hanging plate which I hit seven shots in a row with some lead wad cutters I had made up.

Geez.  Close enough for me. 

Sorry to digress.  But I recovered 832 empties out of the 1,000 fired and no smilies

Hell I am impressed you were able to pick up 83% of your 10 mm brass !!