I've read a couple of posts where Gold dots have had jacket sepperations at higher velocities, but I've also read where xtps fail to expand so now I wanted to load some more 155gr with 10.00 gr of longshot and wanted some opinions on which would be a better choice for higher velocities. I would like to keep the topic on these two because of price point both the gold dots and xtps run the same at the Lgs and can't afford the bonded gold dots .Thanks
In that bullet weight I would go for XTPs. Heavier bullets I might switch to gold dots.
thanks sqlbullet,do you think they xtps would expand reasonably well?
at the speeds you will see from a 10mm in 155 grain, yep. They will expand fine.
It is SPEER Gold Dot, not Sierra.
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thanks I thought about that and changed it ;D
well I have fired over 250 + rounds of the loads and they cycle fine ,accurate I just haven't been able to find any projectiles to see how they held up,I haven't built any elaborate bullet traps,I may try the Speer Gold dots at some point since there is less than 1.00$ difference between the two
You might find this interesting 8)
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#45ACP
Quote from: halfglocked on September 26 2015 09:12:16 PM MDT
I've read a couple of posts where Gold dots have had jacket sepperations at higher velocities, but I've also read where xtps fail to expand so now I wanted to load some more 155gr with 10.00 gr of longshot and wanted some opinions on which would be a better choice for higher velocities. I would like to keep the topic on these two because of price point both the gold dots and xtps run the same at the Lgs and can't afford the bonded gold dots .Thanks
I'm a little confused by the last few sentences of your post. You want to stick with comparisons of Gold Dots and XTP's only because of their similar price and then say you can't afford bonded Gold Dots? I have never ever heard of or seen a Gold Dot anywhere that wasn't bonded. Are you sure you are not confusing it with something else?
All Gold Dots are "bonded". The manufacture process that makes them "gold dot", makes them bonded. The bullets would be a complete fail if they weren't. The GDHP is actually a hybrid bullet, which uses 2 completely different bullet process designs that are combined. The gold "dot" that is the trademark is actually a byproduct of the process, and was probably an accident, initially. Works well for marketing, it seems.
sorry no, I was meaning Gold dots but some salesman at the LGs told menu should spend a couple ore $ and get the new bonded go dots ,I asked him the same question, he told me they hadn't hit the shelf yet .Guess what I was there last week and there were still no new gold dots .So for now the question is the same ,155 xtps or gold dots loads?
Quote from: halfglocked on December 20 2015 08:13:33 PM MST
sorry no, I was meaning Gold dots but some salesman at the LGs told menu should spend a couple ore $ and get the new bonded go dots ,I asked him the same question, he told me they hadn't hit the shelf yet .Guess what I was there last week and there were still no new gold dots .So for now the question is the same ,155 xtps or gold dots loads?
It depends on what you mean by "higher" velocity. The 155 gr. bullets, of any brand (except monolithic) tend to be rather explosive once outside the envelope. If your intent is to develop a 10mm Auto load within published book maximums, any of the mainstream bullets will work. Beyond that will yield unpredictable results. I have the ability to drive 10mm bullets well beyond the capability of any 10mm platform (including carbines), and I do it routinely. My current nuke load is the Barnes 155 gr. Tac-XP in the 2000 FPS neighborhood, from a 6.5" barrel. Of course, this is not from a 10mm Auto pistol. For higher velocities and energy, I do not see the 155 gr. bullets practical for anything outside self defense. They shoot flat (merely due to the velocity), but performance on target, especially hard targets, is less than stellar. You just can't get them fast enough, and they don't hold up at the velocities when they exit the envelope. 180 gr. XTP's are as good as it gets, with the best of both worlds, and will work as fast as you can send them from a 10mm Auto. The 155's, not so much, and the GDHP's are not better. Choose, (occasional) separated jacket and essentially intact bullet core (higher % retention), or total fragmentation with jacket material glued to the tiny pieces. "Bonded" is only as good as the whole package, and grossly overrated in this context. It's a marketing point at best, in my experienced opinion. They are good bullets, no doubt, but not "all that".
We are probably discussing the new G2 Gold Dot being developed for the FBI. This initial testing shows it currently FAILING MISERABLY compared to the good ole DOT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZvkZRsVOMc
Quote from: jazzsax8 on December 21 2015 09:47:02 AM MST
We are probably discussing the new G2 Gold Dot being developed for the FBI. This initial testing shows it currently FAILING MISERABLY compared to the good ole DOT.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZvkZRsVOMc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZvkZRsVOMc)
Good review.
I haven't had my hands on the G2's, yet. I don't believe they are available as a component (couldn't find any reference to them). This appears to be a consequence of trying to fix what wasn't broke. One size does not fit all, and never will. What they should have done is, leave the GDHP as it was, and available, and promote the G2 as a new design and mission. It's obvious it has little in common with the original. "New and Improved", is a disingenuous statement (throughout marketing history). Pick one, new or improved, but you can't have both in the same product at the same time.
well thanks for the great input I am thinking of 155grainers,because of 1 velocity and keep combined and if it has to be used hopefully won't over penatrate like the 180s and above .I am running 10 grs of long shot with CCI large pistol primers, I'd did try magnum pistol once with 8.7 grains of Longshot with 1 x fired starline brass and I wasn't happy at all I had one total case seperation.So I won't do that again out in my G20 SF .
halfglocked, If you had a case separation using 8.7 grains of LongShot with a mag primer, you had a bad casing to start with.
Case inspections are a real part of handloading, and for the 10mm "pass through sizing" makes for a better case preparation and another chance for inspecting things.
Good luck with your project! :D
Quote from: The_Shadow on January 10 2016 07:42:20 AM MST
halfglocked, If you had a case separation using 8.7 grains of LongShot with a mag primer, you had a bad casing to start with.
Case inspections are a real part of handloading, and for the 10mm "pass through sizing" makes for a better case preparation and another chance for inspecting things.
Good luck with your project! :D
This, without a doubt.
9.5 gr LS produces less than 35K with a Sierra JHP at 1.260". 8.7 gr is a powder-puff. Also, if magnum primers are doing anything, AT ALL, to "push it over the edge", you were already too far beyond the edge. Simply put, magnum primers are grossly overrated. A magnum primer used with ANY published load and ANY powder should be considered as nothing more than a fine-tuning tool with non-magnum powder loads, and recommended for slower powders in almost every case. At a time, not too long ago, I couldn't get reasonably priced standard primers, but could get plenty magnums. I reworked all my target loads, regardless of the cartridge and dozen or so powders used, with magnum primers. In most cases I ended up with the same charge. Those that required adjustment were still within the margin of error, at less than 5%, for the same feel, performance, velocities, and pressure indicators. All my defense and hunting loads get magnum primers from the start for a variety reasons (for another discussion). Ultimately, if you have magnum primers and want to use them, there is no additional risk. It's a myth. Just follow the fundamental handloader rules and do it right. No different than sourcing a new lot of powder or switching primer brands, which can, and often does, have a greater affect than what primer you use. If you aren't working up your loads with any component change, you should stick to store-bought ammo and forget about handloading.
Although, pass-through sizing without adequate inspection can hide defects. I've had situations that clearly illustrate it. One incident is posted in the "Weird case failure (http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/weird-case-failure/)" thread.
well thanks for the great input I am thinking of 155grainers,because of 1 velocity and keep combined and if it has to be used hopefully won't over penatrate like the 180s and above .I am running 10 grs of long shot with CCI large pistol primers, I'd did try magnum pistol once with 8.7 grains of Longshot with 1 x fired starline brass and I wasn't happy at all I had one total case seperation.So I won't do that again out in my G20 SF .
(http://www.goldbond.com/images/powder_bottle_new.jpg)
I've loaded and shot both 155 gr GDHPs and XTPs. I think the GDHPs are best in the low to mid 1300s. The XTPs mushroom smaller, but might retain weight better at 1400 fps and higher. The thing about XTPs is that they all basically make about the same shape and size of mushroom throughout the velocity range. It literally is shaped like a mushroom. The difference is that it will just flatten more with increased velocities. The GDHP expands into huge distinct petals, so it can more easily come apart at higher impact velocities.
I would not feel under gunned with either!