https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/time-for-gop-panic-establishment-worried-carson-and-trump-might-win/2015/11/12/38ea88a6-895b-11e5-be8b-1ae2e4f50f76_story.html
Less than three months before the kick-off Iowa caucuses, there is growing anxiety bordering on panic among Republican elites about the dominance and durability of Donald Trump and Ben Carson and widespread bewilderment over how to defeat them.
Party leaders and donors fear nominating either man would have negative ramifications for the GOP ticket up and down the ballot, virtually ensuring a Hillary Rodham Clinton presidency and increasing the odds that the Senate falls into Democratic hands.
The party establishment is paralyzed. Big money is still on the sidelines. No consensus alternative to the outsiders has emerged from the pack of governors and senators running, and there is disagreement about how to prosecute the case against them. Recent focus groups of Trump supporters in Iowa and New Hampshire commissioned by rival campaigns revealed no silver bullet.
Dems empowered by idiocy of the Repubs. We're stuck w/ fragile 2A and future Supreme Court nominees at stake.
Colt, the time to act on the 2A is now. Obama would gladly sign off on national reciprocity for background checks on all transaction. We can even have a opt out if you only want to carry in your home state.
We cannot afford to wait.
Quote from: Wolfie on November 12 2015 08:31:32 PM MST
Colt, the time to act on the 2A is now. Obama would gladly sign off on national reciprocity for background checks on all transaction. We can even have a opt out if you only want to carry in your home state.
We cannot afford to wait.
I would trade background checks and even required basic firearm training for national carry and very limited gun free zones for those with permits.
Before I sign off on universal background checks I want a sane explanation of how it would be enforced. Without infringing my 4th amendment rights
Colt, I live in NYS. Believe it or not, outside of NYC it's easy to get a permit and a firearms course is not even needed. Most states require that. I have no problem with a basic NRA course, in fact they can make money on it. I along with the rest on the forum can train our family but most cannot.
In 55 of 60 counties NY licenses are lifetime with a 5 year recertification with no fee. NYC, Westchester, Nassau and Suffolk have expirations.
SQ, I think enforcement would be a criminal act, such as selling without a background check. NYC cops are getting killed left and right from guns emanating from SC straw purchasers.
Background checks can be done at any store that sells firearms for a $5 fee.
Quote from: Wolfie on November 12 2015 09:37:02 PM MST
Colt, I live in NYS. Believe it or not, outside of NYC it's easy to get a permit and a firearms course is not even needed. Most states require that. I have no problem with a basic NRA course, in fact they can make money on it. I along with the rest on the forum can train our family but most cannot.
In 55 of 60 counties NY licenses are lifetime with a 5 year recertification with no fee. NYC, Westchester, Nassau and Suffolk have expirations.
SQ, I think enforcement would be a criminal act, such as selling without a background check. NYC cops are getting killed left and right from guns emanating from SC straw purchasers.
Background checks can be done at any store that sells firearms for a $5 fee.
Yes, the common sense stuff our politicians would never think up.
NY would be nice to get rights in. Other than leasing property there, I don't qualify :(. I've thought about looking for a $100/yr group lease arrangement to get one. Court rulings do not require the interest be your "domicle." If Hillary can buy property there and become a Senator, I see no issue with such an approach. But, from what I recall the permit wasn't good statewide or in NYC at least, state preemption questions, something like that.... Blah.
What I have NOW:
"Shall not be infringed"
Why should I barter that away?
Greg
Colt, permit good statewide except for NYC unless traveling through it. NYC permit good statewide.
Geeman, what's the barter? Carrying nationwide would be a expansion of rights. And quite frankly within 10 years we will have no leverage to barter. Lookup electoral college and demographics. The GOP needs 40% of the hispanic vote to win in 2016. If the GOP does not win the WH in 2016 they may not win it for a LONG time.
Quote from: Wolfie on November 12 2015 09:37:02 PM MST
SQ, I think enforcement would be a criminal act, such as selling without a background check. NYC cops are getting killed left and right from guns emanating from SC straw purchasers.
Background checks can be done at any store that sells firearms for a $5 fee.
The fee is dependent on area, and that is not the concern.
My concern is about this actually keeping guns out of criminals hands. If we are just adding a new stacking charge to the list once they mis-behave, why bother?
You say the current crime wave is guns sold in SC via straw purchase. That is already illegal. Adding a new law they are breaking is doesn't remediate the behavior. It costs you and me money for no gain.
As far as national carry, not willing to barter away anything until, again, I see a cogent plan for reconciling all the differences. Does that mean we can only carry guns on the CA approved firearms list?
Quote from: Wolfie on November 13 2015 07:00:57 AM MST
......Geeman, what's the barter? Carrying nationwide would be a expansion of rights.......
No, it is not an "expansion", in any sense of the term. It would be the restoration of an unConstitutional seizure of an inalienable right. Only one of several. The only "expansion" is, YOUR party's stated mission. If you support your party, you are a conscious contributor to that mission.
You know something, I never thought in my life that we would ever have a black president or that gay marriage would be the law of the land.
But when you get older you learn adapt or lose.
In the long run, liberals always win and once Hillary gets in and is there for 8 years stacking the courts we will be doomed when it comes to guns, after all liberals will not have to negotiate anything then.
You guys recall the budget fights before the 2012 elections? Obama offered $4 in Democrat cuts for every $1 in GOP cuts and the GOP not only refused, they said they would not even take a 10-1 deal, what happened? It ended up 1-1 and this month the GOP signed a bill extending the debt for another 2 years.
DM, why is the House and Senate not pushing national reciprocity right now? I see a bill but no movement.
Why? They need what's called a "Wedge Issue" to win and that's all that matters, it's like they did with the gays under Bush. Or Obamacare, they use it until it's no longer a vote getter and move on.
Your party plays you like a violin.
Quote from: Wolfie on November 13 2015 11:06:06 AM MST
Your party plays you like a violin.
I think there are plenty of musicians in both parties.
That is why Saunders is getting some much attention...He may be a socialist, but he sure as hockey sticks does what he says.
My party? Don't think so. You don't know what is "my party". Your statement is true of your party, and other's.
Yet you know what my party is.
This is why we are going to lose in the end. Keep letting your "feelings" make you feel you are winning.
"Your party" is any other than mine. And I'm certain my party, which doesn't include "we", will lose. I have no doubt. Nothing emotional about it, other than the sadness our country, as it was founded (in principal) is soon to be no more. The "free lunch" generation and those who purchase their votes will see to it.
Quote from: Wolfie on November 13 2015 07:00:57 AM MST
Geeman, what's the barter? Carrying nationwide would be a expansion of rights. And quite frankly within 10 years we will have no leverage to barter. Lookup electoral college and demographics. The GOP needs 40% of the hispanic vote to win in 2016. If the GOP does not win the WH in 2016 they may not win it for a LONG time.
I believe the Constitution is still in effect because its the supreme law of the land. If you allow it to be taken away, then things are as you believe. If you believe you don't have a right, then there are those that will make sure you don't.
Words have different meanings in the legal system, and they WILL use those words against you, and do so with your consent.
A way to hold your rights:
https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrBT6IvakZWw9IAqztXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1azYwYm9sBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDVklQNjEzXzEEc2VjA3BpdnM-?p=carl+miller+constitution&fr=yfp-t-901-s&fr2=piv-web#id=1&vid=0572248da6102b86385fffb86341d06b&action=view (https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrBT6IvakZWw9IAqztXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE1azYwYm9sBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDVklQNjEzXzEEc2VjA3BpdnM-?p=carl+miller+constitution&fr=yfp-t-901-s&fr2=piv-web#id=1&vid=0572248da6102b86385fffb86341d06b&action=view)
Greg
Well we have the (FSA) Free Shit Army,foreign invaders and disability fraudsters working an already broke system. Walk into certain social security offices and see what's walking in. I can tell you it's not the 62 yr Olds and over for their first check or signing up. Armed security there to. The FSA and the like will vote "D". Could care less about anything else.
Politicians always give away free stuff. Bush and the GOP majority created Prescription Drugs and Medicare Plus before the 2004 elections.
I guess some think free stuff is fine when the GOP is handing out the goodies, hey at least the Democrats paid for Obamacare, unlike PD and MP that were not paid for.
I do however agree with foreign invaders, I hope the GOP passes a bill to keep those Syrians out.
Wolfie. The system's broke $$$ wise. Actually it's broke all around. The 2 party illusion is a 2 headed snake one Body.
No doubt pacapcop
Quote from: pacapcop on November 15 2015 05:10:54 PM MST
Wolfie. The system's broke $$$ wise. Actually it's broke all around. The 2 party illusion is a 2 headed snake one Body.
That is spot on.
I like best a government that does very little. I generally try to support a president from one party and congress from another. Then they can sit and spin and I can live my life.
Checks and Balances is the way to go. In NYS I vote GOP for State Senator to keep it balanced, now mind you a NY Republican is the equivalent to a Virginia Democrat.
Well this may piss a few of you off.
Ben Carson will get my vote whatever party he is in If the Republican leadership,is so ignorant and self serving they are idiots. I have voted GOP since it was legal for me vote some 39 years ago. I for one am sick and tired of the old school business as usual Republican Party. Trump although funny to listen too and likable because he has great sound bites IS NOT A PRESIDENT.
Ben Carson is my guy.
Quote from: Ramjet on December 14 2015 07:11:48 PM MST
Ben Carson is my guy.
He certainly is my first choice. He won me over with that prayer breakfast speech with Obama in attendance, way before he was thinking of running for prez.
I'll likely not get the chance to vote for him, but I hope I do.
Greg
Quote from: Ramjet on December 14 2015 07:11:48 PM MST
Well this may piss a few of you off.
Ben Carson will get my vote whatever party he is in If the Republican leadership,is so ignorant and self serving they are idiots. I have voted GOP since it was legal for me vote some 39 years ago. I for one am sick and tired of the old school business as usual Republican Party. Trump although funny to listen too and likable because he has great sound bites IS NOT A PRESIDENT.
Ben Carson is my guy.
OK. Many folks feel the same way, and make a similar statement about
their candidate. HRC wins. I don't like Trump for President, but he's a better choice than Hillary. You have to vote for the candidate that
can win. Ross Perot didn't. Ron Paul didn't. Carson won't win. Ever. The conservative base loses again, for the same reason. The liberals know better than to split the vote, and relish the moment conservatives do, repeatedly.
Ben Carson head to head against Hillary will win. He is the ONLY candidate that can pull votes from her.
Forget Trump he is Democrat in Republican camo
Carson lost me when he said the pyramids were used to store grain. The republicans don't have a viable candidate.
Quote from: Ramjet on December 15 2015 07:20:27 AM MST
Ben Carson head to head against Hillary will win. He is the ONLY candidate that can pull votes from her.
Forget Trump he is Democrat in Republican camo
I don't disagree with this, but polls are misleading, and less than 1/2 the non-(D) voters agree. Even if the polls are accurate, a split vote is an absolute lost election. If there's a capable (I) on the ballet along with an (R), (D) wins (landslide, historically). Simple as that. It's a two-party system, like it or not. Any votes for other than the nominee is 1/2 vote for the other side. If Carson is nominated, I'll vote for him, without complaint. If Trump is nominated, I'll vote for him, reluctantly.
I completely agree about recognizing that it is a two party system and that has to factor into your voting. Clinton won in the 90's on a splintered Republican party, and Bush won on the 2000's on a splintered Democrat party. Sadly Obama one twice against a reasonably unified, if somewhat unmotivated, republican voter base.
The interesting thing here is the Dem's have a similar issue. Hillary is the media favorite, but Bernie has a lot of grass roots support. Lot of Dem's can't stomach Hilliary, but would splinter the vote for Bernie.
Quote from: DM1906 on December 15 2015 08:21:47 AM MST
Quote from: Ramjet on December 15 2015 07:20:27 AM MST
Ben Carson head to head against Hillary will win. He is the ONLY candidate that can pull votes from her.
Forget Trump he is Democrat in Republican camo
I don't disagree with this, but polls are misleading, and less than 1/2 the non-(D) voters agree. Even if the polls are accurate, a split vote is an absolute lost election. If there's a capable (I) on the ballet along with an (R), (D) wins (landslide, historically). Simple as that. It's a two-party system, like it or not. Any votes for other than the nominee is 1/2 vote for the other side. If Carson is nominated, I'll vote for him, without complaint. If Trump is nominated, I'll vote for him, reluctantly.
So let's get Carson nominated and its win win.
Quote from: sqlbullet on December 15 2015 08:48:27 AM MST
I completely agree about recognizing that it is a two party system and that has to factor into your voting. Clinton won in the 90's on a splintered Republican party, and Bush won on the 2000's on a splintered Democrat party. Sadly Obama one twice against a reasonably unified, if somewhat unmotivated, republican voter base.
The interesting thing here is the Dem's have a similar issue. Hillary is the media favorite, but Bernie has a lot of grass roots support. Lot of Dem's can't stomach Hilliary, but would splinter the vote for Bernie.
I firmly believe Ron Paul fouled the 2012 election. Not only did his supporters vote for him, many voters just didn't vote because of it. Had Paul left the election and endorsed Romney, it may have been enough to nudge him past Obama. Voting one's conscience and supporting a candidate who is aligned with your beliefs is a noble deed. It's a noble loss. You either support the party, or lose. The lesser of evils is the only acceptable option remaining. The balance of the votes, which are the deciding votes, are (I) or unaffiliated, swingers.
The Dem's aren't stupid. Bernie won't be on the ballet with HRC. The Dem's/Lib's are unified against the GOP, and will vote their party. Count on that.
Dr Carson is a Repubilcan candidate I will vote for him in the primaries.
Read these 2 stories from this Republican blogger and committeeman. You will see just how hard it will be for any Republican to beat any Democrat in 2016.
http://blog.chron.com/goplifer/2014/11/the-missing-story-of-the-2014-election/
The Blue Wall is block of states that no Republican Presidential candidate can realistically hope to win. Tuesday that block finally extended to New Hampshire, meaning that at the outset of any Presidential campaign, a minimally effective Democratic candidate can expect to win 257 electoral votes without even trying. That's 257 out of the 270 needed to win.
Arguably Virginia now sits behind that wall as well. Democrats won the Senate seat there without campaigning in a year when hardly anyone but Republicans showed up to vote and the GOP enjoyed its largest wave in modern history. Virginia would take that tally to 270. Again, that's 270 out of 270.
http://blog.chron.com/goplifer/2015/11/republicans-growing-demographic-trap/
This has created a strange and unusually dangerous dynamic, best seen in the radically different results in and out of Presidential election years. We are settling into a pattern, likely to continue for a few more cycles, in which Democrats win crushing victories every four years while Republicans celebrate a faux "resurgence" in the meantime. With each passing year, the Democratic Presidential advantage grows wider while the Republicans' off-year bump weakens.
Political parties go where their supporters take them. A massive influx of Southern conservatives worried about the end of segregation fled the Democratic Party in the last quarter of the 20th century, filling up a previously empty Republican grassroots infrastructure there. Their influence has tipped the balance of power inside the party nationally, suffocating Northern and urban commercial interests that defined the organization from its origins. That electorate dominates Southern politics and their influence has shifted local power, for a while, in rural stretches of the North and West. And they are dying off.
I know alot of guys aren't going to like what Wolfie had to say, but he is spot on.
You guys that are reading this and getting hot under the collar, and are convinced he is out in left field need to find a way to come to grips with this. The modern incarnation of the Republican party isn't going to put a president in the white house.
Unless there is a fundamental shift in the kind of candidate the republicans offer, their party is dead.
QuoteUnless there is a fundamental shift in the kind of candidate the republicans offer, their party is dead.
I agree that's precisely why I think that Carson is that alternative.
Moderates from both parties decide the elections. Thier votes will cross party lines.