Little by little, I've been buying all the pieces to start reloading. In the next few weeks I'll be buying powders and primers. From my very limited research, I think Blue Dot or Power Pistol are safe bets, for a true beginner like me. Initially I'm just looking to load standard, very accurate 180gr. FMJ loads. Can you give me some suggestions on powders and primers? Economical brass, bullets?
What are some stores I can order these from?
If you want to run Blue Dot 10.4 grains is a very accurate load with the 180 grain. I like the CCI 300 and 350 primers.
You may find more economical powders but they are faster burning and use less, however there is usually enough room to fit a double powder charge! :o Alliant BE-86 is a nice powder, using slightly less, it is similar to Power Pistol, but BE-86 has a flash suppressant.
If you happen by a LGS or magazine stand, look for the Hodgdon 2016 Annual Manual, these magazines are packed with load data from Hodgdon, Winchester and IMR powder for rifle and pistol cartridges. These are an excellent value despite the data being online.
There are many bullet choices, lately I have been buying from Rocky Mountain Reloading; http://rmrbullets.com/ (http://rmrbullets.com/)
They have new and pulled bullets. Their prices include shipping. Be sure to read their info about the pulled bullet selections.
Good luck
Brass, buy direct from starline. Best deal out there.
Powder and primers online. Well, you are about to learn about hazmat fees. The short version is unless you are going to buy about 50 lbs of powder, you are better off going local. Usually a hazmat fee hits you about $30 per order. On a box of primers and a pound of powder, that drives the price per unit up a good bit. Generally I can find powder locally for similar prices to online for Alliant powder, or any of the brand names. The saving come if you are buying bulk pull down/canister powders, and you rarely see one that is "good" for 10mm. If you know a local reloader, you might save some cash buy sharing a purchase, but again, I rarely see online prices for Blue Dot lower than my local shop.
Your powder picks are good ones. I have used CCI and Winchester primers. I prefer CCI, but for no articulable reason.
The big question is what reloading manuals do you have? One is a bare minimum, and two or three are really recommended. It allows you to cross reference loads between different components, so you get a better idea of where you are if you have a non-matched component to the published recipes.
I haven't bought any manuals yet, but do have Lyman's 49th Edition saved on my Amazon wish list for future purchase.
Running standard pressure loads, are there any bullets I should look at? Any to stay away from?
Thanks for quick and very informative replies.
I just received an email from MidwayUSA. They've reduced their Hazmat fees to $20.
Is there an advantage of the #350 magnum pistol primer over the standard #300? I'm also thinking of reloading .45 ACP. Will both of these work in those rounds?
Unless you are running a high density powder in a compressed load (say a max load of Accurate #9), magnum primers are generally not indicated in a cartridge with a capacity as low as 10mm.
Some handloaders will look to magnum primers for more uniform ignition to reduce standard deviations in velocity, which is actually a variance in pressure. However, such actions are a two edged sword. The magnum primer might increase uniformity of powder burn, but because the volume of primer compound is increased you can introduce new deviations because of variations in the amount of primer compound.
For both 10mm and 45 ACP standard primers work fine.
As far as cheap bullets for standard pressure loads. I cast my own, but when I buy, I like Nosler JHP's and I don't have issue with plated bullets. However, I rarely punch paper. I generally plink at rocks in the desert, so minute of fist sized dirt is good enough.
A target round I like is the Blue Dot @ 10.4gr and the Xtreme 180 heavy plated fn heads.
As low as youll find for a head, but very good quality
Blue Dot is not easy to find... :o
Look for Longshot.
Or 800X. Or auto-comp.
VV has some powders that run good in 10mm as well, and I have seen them on the shelves locally.
Quote from: The_Shadow on May 01 2013 08:14:01 AM MDT
Robert over in Slovenia, Europe posted this for N105 over at GT
Hornady FMJ 200gr / N105 / CCI 350 LP Magnum
Equipment/conditions:
- Glock 20
- IGB custom barrel 4.6" with full supported chamber
- primers: CCI 350 LP Magnum
- recoil spring: DPM MS 3-spring system for Glock 20/21
- firing pin spring "Red - 28 Newton"
- powder: Vihtavuori N105
- bullets: Hornady FMJ 200gr
- brass: Starline (new)
- OAL: 1.266
- temperature: 30 F (-1 C)
- 1 string: 4 shots
- distance from 1st Chrony screen: 3m (approx. 10 feet)
- I cleaned barrel quickly with brass-brush and hard-plastic brush after third string (after 12 shots)
load (grains)~~~~~average (fps)
11,0.................1216
11,2.................1218
11,4.................1225
11,6.................1242
11,8.................1264
12,0.................1289 primers flattened a bit
IMO the last load w. 12,0gr is safe in this configuration if barrel is clean and temp. is low, speaking of course for MY aftermarket IGB barrel with full supported chamber and considering that after approx. 500 rounds it has less friction or better said, it's a bit broken in.
My woods carry load against feral boar carrying light body armour will be 11,8gr
Warning: Do not try such loads with unsupported barrel or at higher spring/summer temperatures
Another powder to consider (that seems to be available again) is Accurate no. 7. No powder will meter better. It works well in medium to heavy bullets. Low flash and report, and it burns cleanly. Others will get more top end velocity, but pursuing max effort loads is not advisable for someone getting started. There is also plenty of available load data. Just be aware that there is likely a misprint in the Hornady #8 manual that was updated in #9.
I use a lot of Accurate no. 7 for medium-warm everyday range ammo.
I've loaded 11 different powders in 10mm, and my favorite is Accurate no. 9 for hot and heavy. It is far less efficient than Accurate no. 7 though.
Quote from: sqlbullet on January 14 2016 07:49:24 AM MST
Brass, buy direct from starline. Best deal out there.
Powder and primers online. Well, you are about to learn about hazmat fees. The short version is unless you are going to buy about 50 lbs of powder, you are better off going local. Usually a hazmat fee hits you about $30 per order. On a box of primers and a pound of powder, that drives the price per unit up a good bit. Generally I can find powder locally for similar prices to online for Alliant powder, or any of the brand names. The saving come if you are buying bulk pull down/canister powders, and you rarely see one that is "good" for 10mm. If you know a local reloader, you might save some cash buy sharing a purchase, but again, I rarely see online prices for Blue Dot lower than my local shop.
Your powder picks are good ones. I have used CCI and Winchester primers. I prefer CCI, but for no articulable reason.
The big question is what reloading manuals do you have? One is a bare minimum, and two or three are really recommended. It allows you to cross reference loads between different components, so you get a better idea of where you are if you have a non-matched component to the published recipes.
Midway has lowered their hazmat fee to 19! It helps !!
On the subject of bullets, is there a particular style I want to start with. I'm looking for a style and weight that will give me the greatest accuracy. 180gr? Not sure what the advantages of non-bonded vs. bonded vs. cast are either. Right now I plan to load them in the light to medium power range. Way down the line, when I feel more confident, then I'll explore building a hot load...
Saw this for bullets...
http://www.basspro.com/Berrys-Preferred-Plated-Pistol-Bullets/product/14102905570069/
And this for primers... (#300-LG Pistol)
http://www.basspro.com/CCI-Standard-Primers/product/1202282/
These any good? It seems BPS is the only local place carrying Blue Dot... so I might as well get some other items I need there.
really depends on how much you want to buy at one time...plus i haven't seen blue dot for a bit on the supply sites i frequent or locals
http://www.xtremebullets.com/10-40-s/48045.htm
first time buyers are free shipping you can catch deals quite a bit BUT youll want the HPs or HPCB(for hot work..good to 1500 or so) ones
as far as powder
my local is really high on powder(anywhere from $5 -10 a lb), primers(7$ a thousand...cci 300), and bullets($5-6 on 180/200 xtps) compared to powder valley so shop around and tally it up. If you want to just start with a lb of powder and a few hundred primers/bullets then your going to eat it(plus i shoot anytime i can so yea).
http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/
Quote from: Reverendpdp on January 20 2016 03:19:46 PM MST
On the subject of bullets, is there a particular style I want to start with. I'm looking for a style and weight that will give me the greatest accuracy. 180gr? Not sure what the advantages of non-bonded vs. bonded vs. cast are either. Right now I plan to load them in the light to medium power range. Way down the line, when I feel more confident, then I'll explore building a hot load...
Saw this for bullets...
http://www.basspro.com/Berrys-Preferred-Plated-Pistol-Bullets/product/14102905570069/
And this for primers... (#300-LG Pistol)
http://www.basspro.com/CCI-Standard-Primers/product/1202282/
These any good? It seems BPS is the only local place carrying Blue Dot... so I might as well get some other items I need there.
The best accuracy bullet for me has been 180 and 200 gr XTPs with Accurate no. 9, followed closely by Blue Dot. Hornady HAP are the same, except for the perforations that help the mushroom. The heavier bullets with longer bearing surface seem to be best.
I've shot a few thousand Berry's bullets and they are just ok. They need special handling (lots of flair, slow velocities, longer seating, and no crimp) to group worth a darn. They can work, but you won't get anywhere near hot loads without inducing tumbling and other accuracy problem. The issue is that the copper is thin and fragile.
For every day target bullets, I really like Powerbond 180 gr bullets. I get mine locally, but they are priced well at TJConevera.com. Free shipping. They are a plated (bonded) bullet like Berry's except with thicker copper. They are more like a Speer TMJ bonded bullet, and can withstand some 10mm velocity. My G20 favors full-diameter sized bullets, and they are sized 0.400 on the nose. Extremely consistent size and weight. Powerbond calls for using regular FMJ data without the usual limitations to mid-range levels.
I've also used a fair amount of Precision Delta FMJs. They are priced well if bought in bulk. But the 180s tend to be slightly undersized so groups are not as good at the Powerbond. The 200s are sized right.
Lately I've been dabbling with Hi-Tek coated cast bullets. They are getting popular in the action shooting circles. There are a few places to source them, but mine have been from a local producer called Leatherhead bullets. The jury is still out on that one. They have done just fine, but I don't have enough experience to give an endorsement. Testing continues.
CCI 300s are what I use 90% of the time in 10mm. I recommend them.
Any preference on bullet shape? Round nose or flat nose?
Things seem to be trending toward round nose flat points. I am unaware of many true round nose jacketed bullets for .400. Truncated cones are an option too. Mostly, I shoot rnfp bullets.
Primers
Winchester primers are usually known as being a 'hard' primer. Meaning it takes more impact to set them off. CCI's are usually a 'softer' primer. So they do not require as hard of a strike.
I'm not saying CCI's are more dangerous because they are softer, just the Winchester primers may require a more than normal strike to set them off. I've never had an issue with Winchester primers with my 10's, I've had a occasional problem with my .45's and 9mm's.
So to simplify my life i tend toward large and small CCI primers for my reloading needs.
Powder
I've had good luck with Accurate #7, Power Pistol and Win 231. They all meter well - at least in my Lee with the adjustable charge bar - and I tend to weigh about every 25th round have always come out on the money. I'm currently using Power Pistol for my 10's.
I buy all my powder and primers at the gun shows that occur in my area about every 2 months. I can always beat my LGS's prices and don't have to deal with hazmat fees.
Brass
Starline brass, not nickel. You could look at already fired used brass (and you have no idea how many times it may have been reloaded before it has been sold to you) from some of the online dealers, but after doing some comparisons when I was looking, the used fired brass was being sold for the same amount as the new Starline brass.
My recommendation is to stick with 'brass' brass and not nickel brass. Nickel does look great and cleans up well. And who doesn't like taking pride in the rounds they create? But - at least for me - it tends to split more at the case necks than the normal brass (10mm, .45acp and 9mm). And I use a very light almost non-existent crimp on the final stage of my press. I believe that the nickel is less malleable than normal brass and thus more inclined to crack than to stretch. I reload my brass until it becomes un-reloadable anyway.
Oops forgot.
Reloading manuals. Get some. The Hornady and Lyman manuals are good, but are pretty much limited to their bullets. I rely a lot on Lee's Reloading Guide 2nd edition. It has a lot of information for all different bullet weights and styles. I shoot a lot of polymer coated and plated bullets and the Lee book has been the most helpful.
Quote from: cgreth on January 22 2016 02:35:49 PM MST
Primers
Winchester primers are usually known as being a 'hard' primer. Meaning it takes more impact to set them off. CCI's are usually a 'softer' primer. So they do not require as hard of a strike.
I'm not saying CCI's are more dangerous because they are softer, just the Winchester primers may require a more than normal strike to set them off. I've never had an issue with Winchester primers with my 10's, I've had a occasional problem with my .45's and 9mm's.
So to simplify my life i tend toward large and small CCI primers for my reloading needs.
Powder
I've had good luck with Accurate #7, Power Pistol and Win 231. They all meter well - at least in my Lee with the adjustable charge bar - and I tend to weigh about every 25th round have always come out on the money. I'm currently using Power Pistol for my 10's.
I buy all my powder and primers at the gun shows that occur in my area about every 2 months. I can always beat my LGS's prices and don't have to deal with hazmat fees.
Brass
Starline brass, not nickel. You could look at already fired used brass (and you have no idea how many times it may have been reloaded before it has been sold to you) from some of the online dealers, but after doing some comparisons when I was looking, the used fired brass was being sold for the same amount as the new Starline brass.
My recommendation is to stick with 'brass' brass and not nickel brass. Nickel does look great and cleans up well. And who doesn't like taking pride in the rounds they create? But - at least for me - it tends to split more at the case necks than the normal brass (10mm, .45acp and 9mm). And I use a very light almost non-existent crimp on the final stage of my press. I believe that the nickel is less malleable than normal brass and thus more inclined to crack than to stretch. I reload my brass until it becomes un-reloadable anyway.
I agree with your take on brass. In my experience, neck tension has been a pervasive problem with nickel brass if the bullets are undersized (Noslers and Precision Delta come to mind).
I disagree, however, that CCI primers are soft. They are some of the hardest cups in both small and large sizes. Federal being on the soft end (and popular for reduced power striker springs). Winchesters are in between. I like CCI primers in auto loading rifles because they are hard cups.
Years ago when striker fired pistols first came about the CCI's were way hard and the strikers were not igniting them 100%. It was then that even many primer manufactures including CCI had made the cups slightly softer/thinner to improve ignition reliability back in the day. This drastically changed the amount of pressure they could contain before they would start flattening out.
I have some of the older CCI's and they wouldn't slide into the new Winchester brass but the Winchester primers would slide in very easy. Newer CCI's don't seem to do this after the change over...
I managed to get my hands on some Blue Dot as well as some Starfire(?) brass. As far as economical bullets for accuracy, I'm thinking hard cast flat nose 175-180 grain. What do you think of these? Any places that offer these at a good price?
Also I'm hearing a lot about case trimming. Should I be concerned with this right now?
I have never had to trim a 10mm casing ever! :o If you wish you can separate them by lengths if you want but that isn't necessary either.
Blue Dot is good to go, 10.2 to 10.4 is a great target load for the cast bullets for the 170-180 grain bullets.
You mentioned Starfire but I think you meant Star Line...That is the good stuff!
There is no need to trim auto loading straight walled cases. In my experience, 10mm cases shrink in length. Cases with a shoulder will, on the other hand, grow with repeated firing and sizing.
Same. My 10's get shorter each time.
Thank you gang for all the responses and outstanding help. I tell you you've gone above and beyond the call of duty and I so appreciate it.
Any suggestions on buying hard cast bullets?
Buy for fit, not hardness.
Hard bullets (BHN of 16 and above) are rarely called for, and generally won't solve a leading problem.
Slug your barrels, and add .001" to the result. Buy bullets that are that size. This may present a challenge. For my Witness guns that would be bullets that are .4015"-.402". Most commercial bullets are sized .401", which is a bit too small.
If I shoot "hard" commercial cast bullets sized .401" in my witness I get some leading.
If I shoot "hard" home cast bullets sized .402" I get no leading. If I shoot moderate (bhn 10-12) hard bullets sized .401" with light charges of Blue Dot I get leading. If I shoot the same bullets at the same velocity with Unique, I get no leading. If I shoot the same bullets with a full charge of blue dot, no leading.
See, with the full power charge or Unique or Blue Dot, the bullet "bumps up" in size to seal the bore. And sealing the bore is the real trick to no leading.
Most commercially cast bullets are way too hard, and are often undersized for the guns they are fired in.
Quote from: sqlbullet on January 26 2016 09:23:21 AM MST
Buy for fit, not hardness.
Hard bullets (BHN of 16 and above) are rarely called for, and generally won't solve a leading problem.
Slug your barrels, and add .001" to the result. Buy bullets that are that size. This may present a challenge. For my Witness guns that would be bullets that are .4015"-.402". Most commercial bullets are sized .401", which is a bit too small.
If I shoot "hard" commercial cast bullets sized .401" in my witness I get some leading.
If I shoot "hard" home cast bullets sized .402" I get no leading. If I shoot moderate (bhn 10-12) hard bullets sized .401" with light charges of Blue Dot I get leading. If I shoot the same bullets at the same velocity with Unique, I get no leading. If I shoot the same bullets with a full charge of blue dot, no leading.
See, with the full power charge or Unique or Blue Dot, the bullet "bumps up" in size to seal the bore. And sealing the bore is the real trick to no leading.
Most commercially cast bullets are way too hard, and are often undersized for the guns they are fired in.
Nothing to add here, but to say that this is an excellent post!
I had back ordered 10k Sellier and Belloit (sp) primers during the great component shortage of 2014 ($20/k). They came in about 10 months later. I have about 2k left. Most all of the 10mm rds I have loaded to date (app 2k) have used the. They are 100% reliable and load well in Lee progressives.
Using Power Pistol for 10mm (as well as 45 GAP) I have some longshot but have yet to give it a try. I range from 7.3 - 7.9 grns of PP for 180 grn bullets.
I have been using Xtreme plated bullets for shooting steel and am just getting started with the Hornady XTP's. The Sierra bullet factory is about 30 min from my house and the offer factory "seconds" that to date have been flawless. Often times they are just hairline scratches in the jacket. They are sold by the pound and offer about a 30% savings (plus no shipping). There is also a starline brass factory (Outlet?) next door. I have yet to visit it yet.
My first lot of brass was new starline unprimed nickel. I have about 4 loads on about 1/2 of it with no issue. I will keep a look out for the neck cracks etc.