Shooting Underwood 180gr FMJ FN yesterday......strange powder residue, and about 1 in 25 seem underpowered (closer to a standard plinking round) AND a LOT of strange residue.
Yellowish white, relatively hard powder debris blown throughout my 10m AR and around the chamber and into the frame of my Glock. Over the years I've seen factory ammo do this (357Sig mostly, but some other high pressure rounds) - but usually the stuff is soft and dissolves quickly in Hoppe's. This stuff is crunchy and need to be wiped off.
What is it?
I will be contacting Underwood this week.
Do you have a picture?
Un-ignited or incomplete-ignited powder. This is the result of very poor component selection. Not unlike an under-charge of 296/H110 and/or standard primer with light(er) bullets. According to the pull-down identified powder, this shouldn't happen. Perhaps it isn't Lovex D037.01 (it isn't ignition sensitive), or a different lot with a different powder? AA9 will do this in some combinations, as well. Your long bore should negate just about any of the conditions. Just about, obviously. On a very remote outside chance, it could be a buffer overdose, but this happens so rarely, it should never pass QC testing.
No picture.
It's Underwood 10mm Auto, 180gr F.M.J 1350 FPS C1405-001 (Lot?) Item 241
Maybe 14 = 2014?
Without pictures I don't think any of us can really figure it out. Contact Underwood with the issue and send the ammo back for an exchange.
Quote from: Intercooler on January 31 2016 09:04:25 AM MST
Without pictures I don't think any of us can really figure it out. Contact Underwood with the issue and send the ammo back for an exchange.
All I left is an empty box and my online receipt from Underwood. Dang I should have taken a picture. There was a LOT of it.
I suspect it is partially "burnt" powder.
Have you ever seen white/yellow white tiny little pellets in any gun? I mean you probably shoot a lot more than I do, and I've seen it from time to time. Not that it has much bearing on this case.
It's hard to say what's going on with the ones you have, but this powder usually burns clean. Was it a very cold day where you shoot? Another thing that comes to mind is loose bullet fit may not have allowed a full power burn and pressure development.
The powder Underwood is using in these rounds is a LOVEX D037.01 or Major Pistol powder. Shooters World seems to be the supplier under the name of - Major Pistol powder. These were from Dec 2015
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/underwood-180gr-fmj-plated-intercooler-122015/msg54135/#new (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/underwood-180gr-fmj-plated-intercooler-122015/msg54135/#new)
I had samples of this powder and tested it to be sure of the yield. This powder is said to use the same load data as AA#7.
It was around 40°F so not too cold.
Quote from: Intercooler on January 31 2016 08:26:55 AM MST
Do you have a picture?
I DO!!
I had some freetime to fiddle. I took the BCG out to try some other stuff. This is AFTER soaking for at least an hour in Hoppe's and Kroil mix. A bit hard to get my camera to focus down in there. Mind you this is the back end of the BCG, the junk was thick on the boat tail and closer to the gas key.
(http://pws.cablespeed.com/~pablomail//powderjunk.JPG)
We have seen the yellow powder before in a few different MFG's rounds (even factory). The thought is some kind of moisture induced process on the powder.
Received a response from Underwood:
QuoteWe have stopped using that powder for that very reason. It's just unburned residue, nothing too crazy. I'm not sure why one is feeling underpowered every couple of rounds though. That powder, while dirtier, is pretty consistent. The only reason we switched is because it wasn't as clean as we like.
QuoteIt's a proprietary type of powder not available for public use, but it is similar to U10 with a few differences. Glad to hear you're still happy! Anything we send out the door now won't have that powder, we dropped it alltogether for that very reason.
Pablo, That's interesting to read what Kevin Underwood mentions to you... U10 = Underwood 10mm powder? ???
Did you mention LOVEX D037-01 or Major Pistol as being the powder type in those you had? ::)
Now to see if Underwood goes back to LongShot or 800X or a different powder altogether...If he starts using Alliant BE-86 that would be a total surprise to me, but it would be cool to see if he would push its limits. ;)
Quote from: The_Shadow on February 01 2016 02:00:08 PM MST
Pablo, That's interesting to read what Kevin Underwood mentions to you... U10 = Underwood 10mm powder? ???
Did you mention LOVEX D037-01 or Major Pistol as being the powder type in those you had? ::)
Now to see if Underwood goes back to LongShot or 800X or a different powder altogether...If he starts using Alliant BE-86 that would be a total surprise to me, but it would be cool to see if he would push its limits. ;)
No I didn't mention any powder in particular. Hope they go with Longshot.
Looks a lot like powder tags to me. Back in the 80's IMR had tags in all their powders. I can remember that powder tags were going to become the norm until everyone started yelling it was put in to be able to trace which powder was used and that was what it was for to I.D. the powder but people thought it was to trace it back to a individual canister and see where and who bought it. But the actual use was to I.D. that it was IMR powder. With it not dissolving with bore cleaner is what makes me think its powder tags. I always used to brush everything off before using any solvents or cleaners. Back then there was not as many choices in powders as there is now.