I didn't see a topic here on it. Should Apple be able to keep the Government at bay over the terrorist cell phones?
I believe the government cares less about what's on that phone than they do about what's on EVERY i-phone.
Snowden proved they go much farther than they should, the Patriot Act allows them to go farther than they should, and with the data storage, logic programs, and powerful statistical math they certainly have the ability to know more about you than you do.
No back door is a good thing IMHO. Armed people would have helped shorten the terror for that phone's owner.
Greg
I oppose the fact the Govt is trying to FORCE apple to make/do something they don't have... It's right up there with being forced to buy health care and then penalized if you don't.
All i can say Broccoli !
This is a bad deal. Apple and Mr Cook are right to refuse.
If terrorist group in question were hard right wing, evangelicals shooting up and bombing abortion clinics; Apple woulda had that phone splayed open in 5 minutes. The MS media woulda flipped and every single news organization would have been broadcasting from Apple parking lot in Mountainview similar to the OJ trial until phone data released to general public.
Musta missed the Consitutional and Bill Of Rights provision granting individuals and corporations the "right" to transmit unbreakable encrypted data over PUBLIC radio waves.
Since when does Obama give a shit about terrorism???
There's your answer - like Geeman said.
A vote FOR Apple.
Pat
The FBI, as well as many (if not all) 3+letter agencies are doing what they do. Exercising arrogant supremacy. The problem with the Patriot Act, and other laws granting broad authority by elected officials and their agents, is not the law itself. It is the extremist interpretation. This is why The Constitution and Bill of Rights were written in such simplicity. And they are still abused via extremist interpretation. This is done by elected officials, who happen to be lawyers, doing what lawyers do.
This topic is very popular among my circle of law enforcement friends. We all agree, that the solution would have been simple, but it may be too late now. The problem isn't that the search warrant and court order is demanding Apple to hand over phone data or hack a phone so the data can be retrieved by the FBI, but they are demanding that Apple produce something they do not currently possess or make available. THIS is the issue, and is not lawful, nor Constitutional. First, we should not be discussing this at all, and it should have never been a matter for the media to broadcast (just like interrogation techniques and other national security matters). All the FBI had to do, is go to Apple, and ASK them to assist with accessing the phone data. A search warrant, in this case, isn't even required (it is a government-owned and issued device, which assures no privacy or possession rights to the issuee). A little hat-in-hand "please" wouldn't hurt, either. The government agencies, in their arrogant supremacy, will not settle for "assistance", but instead demand to possess the means. This will be the extremist interpretation, ultimately. As said before, although there is a justifiable and easily understandable necessity to access the data on that one phone, they are demanding a means to access any phone or device that may be in their possession, and they have stated as much. The FBI knew this happen, and in their arrogance, fully believed they could use the court to bully Apple into an unConstitutional act.
I'm going to look at this a little differently. It is my opinion formed by being on this earth, in this country for 60+ years.
Do I like or appreciate the tactics used by the alphabet agencies to intimidate the common man? No
Do I like having secret files of data collected by these agencies to be kept on me and you? No
Do I like the laws and other actions that take away our rights established well over 200 years ago? No
Do I like the lies spewed by government, especially the CEO, to keep us uninformed and at bay to further their agendas? No
Do I like the fact that we are the best nation on this earth with the best freedoms and rights? Yes
Does this come at a price? Yes
Do I want the .gov to have the ability to hack any phone, computer or media device to see what's on there? No
Do I want the .gov to be able to go to an Apple and ask them to retrieve info from the device of a person who was killed during an act of terror against the people of this country? Yes. Our safety trumps the rights of any person or people who try to harm our nation or it's people.
So, in short, I think Apple should take the phone, open it up, download all the files and give them to the authorities to do what needs to be done to protect us. However, I do not want the .gov to find out how they did it so they can decide to do it whenever it fits their mood. Apple should get the info and destroy the phone so it cannpt be reverse engineered to find out how it was done.
We are in an age where technology is present and can be used to do great harm to the people of this country and the world. I do not feel this info should be used for a fishing expedition but in a case like this, the information belongs to the citizens of this country.
My mindset is if you give them an inch... I would rather not!
Last I heard there were 10x that amount from different agencies ( 70 something )
Quote from: larryh1108 on February 28 2016 06:57:37 AM MST
Do I want the .gov to be able to go to an Apple and ask them to retrieve info from the device of a person who was killed during an act of terror against the people of this country? Yes. Our safety trumps the rights of any person or people who try to harm our nation or it's people.
So, in short, I think Apple should take the phone, open it up, download all the files and give them to the authorities to do what needs to be done to protect us. However, I do not want the .gov to find out how they did it so they can decide to do it whenever it fits their mood. Apple should get the info and destroy the phone so it cannpt be reverse engineered to find out how it was done.
You can't un-create. Once Apple has done this once, the effort is complete, and sharing the fruits of the effort is as trivial as sending a file.
And, once leaked, who knows what is inside this pandora's box. It may well be that an enterprising techie will figure out how to decrypt and deliver the contents of your phone over the air.
Also, keep in mind that his is happening because the Government didn't ask Apple first, and has now gotten into a mess trying to hack the phone themselves. If they had just asked before trying a bunch of hacker gargabe, Apple could have easily created access to the phone.
General principal, keep the government out. But since I do not have an IPhone it is hard for me to really care about it at all.
I don't have an iPhone either. I prefer Android, usually pure android from Google.
But, this case is going to have huge ramifications in regards to personal privacy across all spectrums of electronic data.
Guys;
This is ALL about rights and legal precedent. If you think Apple CAN'T get into that phone at-will no you don't understand technology. It is ALL the other stuff afterward................ opens the gates of hell, AGAIN, for our muslim Pres.
Pat
Apple can print out what is in the phone and give it to the government.
Apple doesn't have what is in the phone. They would have to create a version of IOS that circumvents security to get it. And once created, it will get leaked.
Further, they have committed to their customer base that such a version does not and will not exist. They have sold phones on the basis that what the government is trying to force them to do, they won't do.
Best analogy I've heard for this thus far below.
You own 100 condos that you rent out. A murder is committed by a tenant. The FBI comes with a warrant to search the house the tenant rented. But rather than simply ask for you to open the one condo, they demand that you rekey all 100 condos and provide them a master key so that they may enter and exit any condo at any time as they please.
Now were this 20 years ago I would be fine with Apple providing a back door. Back then use of tools like that were actually controlled and government users had to go through every legal roadblock to use them. In a cybersecurity conference I was at last year the speaker was "genuinely annoyed" at the state of some of the tools he wrote for dod years ago. Years ago a tool took multiple signature to use. When he did his last consultation work for them the updated versions of those tools have an integrated reason code use menu. Guess what one of the options was...OTHER...freaking other. A tool that used to require a warrant and multiple signatures now simply requires someone to give a bs reason to infringe your rights without due process or reasonable cause. No way Apple should give them a backdoor now. If they can do it and keep it secure they should require the Justice Dept to pay for each phone unlocked and have all warrants in hand before so much as looking apples direction.
But is suppose if they can force us to buy third party private healthcare then they could force us to purchase third party encryption that "only the govt has access to."
The goal is not to get into "that phone" but to get the public talking and fighting about Privacy. The government knows exactly what's on that phone - but the government wants to use this crisis to their advantage. "You never let a serious crisis go to waste. And what I mean by that it's an opportunity to do things you think you could not do before." Rahm Emanuel
If the public demands Apple "open up that phone" then the government will use that public sentiment to further chip away at our dwindling rights.
My thoughts are the alphabet agency believed that Apple wouldn't fight, especially since they are more of a left leaning institution. Now a line has been drawn in the sand; the alphabet agency has only one option, press it through the courts in hope of a favorable outcome.
My prediction, this will get dropped and the alphabet agency will work with Apple to come up with a mutual agreeable resolution. My gut says the Gubbermit alphabet agencies don't want this precedent out there because of future ramifications.
I support Apple's stance.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/09/edward-snowden-fbi-san-bernardino-iphone-bullshit-nsa-apple
Big surprise huh? Didn't see this coming... https://ca.news.yahoo.com/senators-close-finishing-encryption-penalties-legislation-sources-212238633--finance.html
This is ultimately a first amendment challenge. Code is a kind of speech, and has been protected as such in the past.
Apple if being forced to testify, after a sense, by producing language that may incriminate certain parties.
They should refuse on fifth amendment grounds. The government could use the technology outside the scope of this case to incriminate Apple or it's conspirators in the future. So, grant full immunity to Apple and it's customers, just like you would get any other time you were compelled to testify against your interest.
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/mar/10/apple-fbi-could-force-us-to-turn-on-iphone-cameras-microphones
I thought the NSA could unlock ANYTHING!
They can and they did. This was all about using a "crisis" for advantage, in this case in an attempt to get the public aligned with "less privacy = more security". It failed.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/03/28/apple-justice-department-farook/82354040/
all a moot point now since the DOJ got into the phone via other means ( sounds like hired hackers ) and dropped the lawsuit
Quote from: tommac919 on March 28 2016 06:37:41 PM MDT
all a moot point now since the DOJ got into the phone via other means ( sounds like hired hackers ) and dropped the lawsuit
Agreed
Not too sure this is a great outcome for Apple either... Now that their unbreakable encryption and or security has been broken by a 3rd party; the rabbit is out of the hat and knowledge to exploit the hack will get out.
Well thats that and Apple cannot make the claim it cannot be hacked.
Herad today it was the encryption that cracked, not the phone... sw patch time.
but,no worry as an Iphone 7 has already been leaked.
In the age old battle between bullet and armor, armor alway looses eventually. This applies to encryption as well. Sooner or later there is a computer fast enough to brute force it.
More on how they did it.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/29/did-the-fbi-just-unleash-a-hacker-army-on-apple.html
It begins....
FBI agrees to unlock iPhone, iPod in Arkansas homicide case
http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2016/03/31/fbi-agrees-to-unlock-iphone-ipod-in-arkansas-homicide-case.html
Rojo:
Yep, heard same thing today. Now, FORTUNATELY for Obama, he can get into ANYONE's phone. Isn't that great! >:( [size=78%] Ass-clown and all the minions in his administration.[/size]
To me a VERY interesting topic. Having bin military 02 w/2 different ts's from 2 different agencies, I believe that there are things the GENERAL public does not need to know. That being said, I do VALUE my personal freedoms very seriously and I do not take them for granted. DM1906 and gandog56, Very Well Spoken. anyone that does not believe that NSA can't do this in a heartbeat is naive. SEMPER FI ! tom