First post ever on here so hello to all first of all.
I have been reloading 10mm for a while now just bought a colt delta elite a few months back.
So far i have ben shooting SIG brand 180gr FMJ ammo with great accuracy resulsts.
My regular loads for my glock 20C are:
Sierra 165gr sportsmaster over 9.5gr 800x
HORNADY 200gr XTP over 8.0gr 800x (my hornady book max is 8.1 but i know hornady is very conservative with their max load data)
Question is do you guys thing these are to hot for the Delta elite?
If you have a Colt Delta Elite olease share what you feed it regularly. Thanks!
TUEBOR welcome to the forum and congrats with your Colt DE.
I'm sure you have heard of the DE's lack of cartridge support due to the rampless barrel. That being said 8.4 grains of 800X or 8.4 grains LongShot may be about tops for the 200XTP seated at 1.252" "Starline Brass"
8.4 grains of 800X should yield;
Muzzle Velocity: 1166 fps
Muzzle Energy: 603 ft. lbs
The Sig ammo showed the following
Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: Sig Sauer Elite Performance 180gr FMJ (Aaron Barr)
Ballistics Information: 10mm Auto
Muzzle Velocity: 1250 fps
Muzzle Energy: 624 ft. lbs
Brass Make/Headstamp: SIG - Brass
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.5940"/Dia. 0.4005": 180gr. FMJ
Actual weigh 179.8 grains Crimp Diameter 0.3975"
Meplat 0.2500" / Exposed Lead Base
C.O.A.L.: 1.2490" / 1.2510" / 1.2470" / 1.2530" / 1.2505"
Primer: Large Pistol Brass color
Case: Diameter 0.4215" Crimp Diameter 0.4205" Length 0.9875"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: BE-86 8.8 grains
Glock 29 velocity 1178 case expansion 0.4315"
Glock 20 velocity 1250 case expansion 0.4315"
Glock 20 velocity 1260 case expansion 0.4315"
S&W 1006 velocity 1276 case expansion 0.4265"
S&W 1006 velocity 1286 case expansion 0.4270"
It's always a good idea with any new firearm to start low, and work up.
Congrats on the DE!
Well I plan on developing a specific target load for My delta elite using 180gr berrys target bullets.
Anyone have pull down data for underwoods 180gr delta elite loads? I found one thread online but during pull down The OP found it to be loaded with a 200gr instead of a 180gr bullet (it was loaded with 8.8gr 800x) he also claims it shot fine with no signs of overpreasure. My 200gr XTP loads are loaded with 8.0gr of 800x.
http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo-pull-downs/underwood-(delta-elite)-180gr-nosler-jhp-(200gr)-pull-down/
The Delta will handle any published load data just fine. Just reduce and work up in case there is some outlier factor in your setup. But if you aren't seeing over pressure signs, then you are fine as long as you are on book.
I had mine redone to accommodate a ramped bull barrel and fitted a firing pin stop radiused to handle the big stuff. Now using a reverse plug and bullet proof GI guide rod. It's a fun gun and it will handle fun loads. I have also upgraded to Tripp mags and an EGW higher magazine release for feeling reliability. I like AA#9 and 180 FMJ loaded to worked up loads. I didn't see the point of keeping the rampless barrel when it limited the available horsepower. It's still got the brand name, but it's a lot nicer.
Quote from: Forrest on October 06 2016 04:22:22 PM MDT
I had mine redone to accommodate a ramped bull barrel and fitted a firing pin stop radiused to handle the big stuff. Now using a reverse plug and bullet proof GI guide rod. It's a fun gun and it will handle fun loads. I have also upgraded to Tripp mags and an EGW higher magazine release for feeling reliability. I like AA#9 and 180 FMJ loaded to worked up loads. I didn't see the point of keeping the rampless barrel when it limited the available horsepower. It's still got the brand name, but it's a lot nicer.
Welcome to the forum. Sounds like a very nice DE. I have a stock 2012 model. My wife loves shooting it. We have many other 10mm's that will handle the real hot loads, so we have left it the way it is.
Thanks! I can understand the decision you made to keep it stock. I am now investing in heavier recoil springs to keep the brass in the same county. I'm happy to have found a place where folks are happy to turn up the volume on this cartridge.
I've never found a good solution to keep the brass in the same county other than:
A. A brass catcher. I have one on a tripod that works quite well.
B. I recently purchased a Grand Power P40. The rotating barrel seems to slow things way down, I was at the range last weekend and only lost 2 pieces of brass out of hundreds fired. I actually think someone else picked them up. It was throwing them about 10 feet, 2 to 3 feet behind me. First time I've had a 10mm not launch them where I only got about 50% back.
I'm going with the increased power recoil spring. I can also beef up the mainspring if I had to, but it bumps the trigger pull up slightly. I'm going to bet that any production setups are undersprung.... especially when the brass is booking airfare and the factory loads are pathetic.
I sprung my RIA quite heavy and a flat bottom slide stop as well. It still threw them a country mile :)
Well if it's still going a ways on a 28# recoil spring then I will be okay with knowing that i have done my best.
Please do let us know. My comments aren't meant to discourage you, only sharing my experience.
I'm not discouraged in the least. I just really want to get my brass easily collected. The twenty foot fling is getting old. The forum has encouraged me to seek an accurate load in the upper performance level. So I'll be interested in seeing what I have when the spring situation is a bit more controlled.
Okay so I fired a few rounds this morning with the new 28# spring in place. Ejection is still distant at about fifteen feet to the right, but it's pretty controlled and the gun runs fast. I have not done an accuracy work on this load to see if a change in impact has occurred due to the different slide speed. I should have trimmed the grass first. I lost a piece...still looking. The gun is tamed a bit too, but there is no such thing as a malfunction clearing drill. It's a bear to pull the slide back. I believe i will increase the OAL a little to aid in feeding.
I also pulled two loads apart today to measure bullet weight which came in at 180 gr. The charges are not possible to accurately measure because the accurate #9 goes all over the place. I thought they were scaled at 14.5 grains. I was only recording 11& change due to the leaking from the kinetic bullet pulling hammer. Digital scale must have been wrong. Balance beam from now on. No worries.
Quote from: Forrest on October 12 2016 11:44:27 AM MDTThe charges are not possible to accurately measure because the accurate #9 goes all over the place. I know they were scaled at 14.5 grains. I was only recording 11& change due to the leaking from the kinetic bullet pulling hammer. There is no way that I am only loading 11.5 grains.
There is an art form to pulling bullet as not to lose any powder with a kinetic type puller...
First you need a block of wood (like a 4x4 about 2 foot long standing on end) The wood will act as a cushion and can help with bounce. When you strike the kinetic puller, do so firmly like a deadblow hammer, not letting it bounce, once the bullet starts moving, tap lighter to just have the bullet drop out easy. Place a scale pan on a sheet of clean typing paper, pouring the bullet and powder out. I actually try the secure the bullet as it slides outward of the puller and use an artist paint brush to sweep any powder stuck to the bullet and fingers. (clean dry fingers help with it not sticking to things)
Powders like AA 2,5,7,9, and other smaller ball or kernel do try to roll or bounce around, but working over the typing paper lets you see and recover any that misses the scale pan working carefully! Doing the pull-downs that are listed on the forum is tedious work, however I take my time when pulling to insure I get every bit of powder, for the puller (clean the inside often with dry paper towels), inspect the casings for any that might become stuck to any bullet sealers inside and with the very fine powders some can get inside the primer flash hole.
This process has worked well over the years and yielded great results and accuracy... :D
I pulled two bullets today and found out that I am not as careful as I thought. Apparently the powder inside was #7 not #9 and it was not 14.5 grains. Something was amiss in Denmark as far as my last digital scale. So it's about 12 grains of #7 as far as I can tell and the figure in my head was 1300 and not 1400.
I WAS WRONG.
My new balance scale has directed me to a nice load of 1.280 OAL and 12.0 grains of ACCURATE #7 under a 180 grain Precision Delta JHP. It's accurate and it barks AND THERE AREN'T ANY ISSUES. Yay for me! I don't care how fast it goes! The increased OAL has alleviated all function issues.
Balance beam, at least to me is the only way to go!! I use digital, for my shotguns, because I didn't own a balance beam at the time. But it'll change on me, and I not notice till I've already done some shells, not a big deal in shotgun-only talking .2 or . 3 grns.. but in 10mm, I set my beam, double check with my digital, and every 10 rounds double check again, I'm super cautious with that.
I'm actually faster with the beam scale than my digital.... go figure?
I, too shoot the SIG 180 grn, it's what I've been basing my other hand loads from in a feel/accuracy stand point. But has anybody actually chronographed these to see if the 1250 fps is real? I only ask because looking at 3 books, you'll find different fps/pressures for same bullets and grn powder... and have seen manufacturerS touting velocity they rarely hit. Like HP in cars or volts in amps... claiming the peaks for sales, but not the typical avg.
I have not found heavier recoil spring to help much with the launch distance of the ejected 10mm case. However, for my EAA pistols I have found shortening the length of the ejector makes a big difference.
My theory is case ejection distance is a velocity issue. So having the ejector hit the brass closer to the end of the slide stroke means the brass and slide are moving slower when the brass contacts the tip of the ejector. I would walk up to it slowly if you want to try it but I took 3mm off my full size steel and 2mm off the Hunter. The launch trajectory is lower and distance is reduced. FYI I use a 20#/in spring in the full size and an 18#/in spring in the Hunter. My current loads for them are in the 650-700 ft-lbs energy with 180 grain bullets.
How in the world do you guys tell what powder is in factory loads? I have often been curious on how to duplicate some of the good shooting factory stuff. My DE is still pretty new(less than 200rds), has only got factory Hornady 155 and 180 and some handloads I have worked up for it. None has been too impressive but I am afraid to run BB or DT from things I have read. My loads so far have all been with CFE, since the election did not go bad I am sure I can find other stuff now-A#9 sounds like a fav here.
I worked up to 1325ish with the 155 and 1100ish/180's.Not much more than a 40 +P, cases look great. I want to push it a little more. Also I am hesitant to make any permanent mods to the gun.
Quote from: Peter10mm on November 27 2016 03:58:24 PM MST
I have not found heavier recoil spring to help much with the launch distance of the ejected 10mm case. However, for my EAA pistols I have found shortening the length of the ejector makes a big difference.
Hey Pete, care to put numbers to this? In feet I mean. Was 20 feet, reduced to 10 feet with x load. Simply by shortening the ejector.
There are many powders that will produce good results for the 10mm, no particular order;
Blue Dot for accuracy
LongShot, 800X, Blue Dot, AA#7 & AA#9 for highest velocity
Good middle ground performance Power Pistol, BE-86, CFE Pistol, Auto Comp, HS6, Unique, Herco, some Lovex powders
Target play Win 231/HP38, TightGroup, Bullseye, Universal, WSF
Speer data with a Delta Elite
(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j441/_The_Shadow/Speer10mmSupplmentData-1.jpg)
I did a rough measurement on the ejection distance. Before it was up to 15 yards! Hard to keep track of spent brass with that, especially outdoors. At an indoor range the ricochets were so powerful the brass would bounce and roll all over the place, sometimes to 6 lanes away. After trimming the ejector the brass would land within about 8 yards and take a lower flight path. At some point I may trim even further but I presume if trimmed enough, especially with less powerful loads leading to a slower moving slide, I may not see adequate ejection. But the ejector can be replaced, it just costs.
That is with either Accurate #9 at 14.9 gr (Hornady Manual max load - but insanely powerful) or Longshot at 9.5 grain,s all with a 180 grain HAP bullet.
On the topic of Accurate #9 14.9 grains for 180 grain bullet. I was getting 1440 fps (830 ft-lbs energy) with a 6 inch barrel and COAL = 1.260 inch. Violent vibration and feed problems even in a steel frame gun. A Glock 20 was intolerable to hold and shoot. QuickLOAD calculates 75,000 psi chamber pressure for that load which qualifies for insane but explains the aesthetic observations and high velocity. I have since backed off to 12.5 grains Acc #9 which yields 1277 fps (653ft-lbs energy) in the same gun. I have seen people post 15 grains of Acc #9 loads. I wish I could explain that.
Extractor fitting in a 1911 isn't hard. As far as the gun working with some PF and not others...if this bugs you, go back to the .45. This is advanced level reloading and pistol tuning.
Just a tip to pull bullets safely and not spill powder, I remove a die from my press and run a round up into the empty space then I take a pair of sturdy needle nose pliers and get a grip on the bullet. Then you simply pull the bullet back down with the press handle making sure to let pliers go into the die hole which will act as a stop. Keep a good grip on the bullet and continue pulling the press handle until the bullet is out. You will scar some bullets this way but will get accurate powder recovery.
Well, a kinetic type puller if used correctly, you can recover the precise powder charge and not mar the bullets for reuse...It is very very rare that I mess up a bullet using the kinetic puller. I have had gas checks stay inside the case but these are easy to tip over and remove. They are also easily reseated for reuse...
Tips for Kinetic type pullers, make sure the inside of the catch tube is clean and dry.
Place the loaded cartridge in the jaw chuck and tighten it securely.
Use a block of wood such as a 4x4 on the end grain. (the 4x4 I use is about 2 foot tall standing on end) Strike the puller solidly and look to see if the bullet moved, as the bullet moves out further soften the blows to just have the bullet drop out easy.
Bullets with pointed tips, open tip HP's place a small wad of paper towel in the bottom of the tube to cushion it.
When removing the powder and bullet, work over a clean piece of typing paper with the scale pan placed in the middle, the bullet will slide out you can catch it and set it to the side, then recover the rest of the powder in the scale pan.
A small artist paint brush can help sweep the powder loose if it sticks to the inside the tube of the puller. I as use a "D cell battery" to tap the bottom of the puller to loosen any specks or flakes.
Out of all the pull-downs which have been listed on the forum, only 2 bullets got messed up...one was a loose lead core half jacket 0.357", the other was a 9mm rubber core that was so light and glued in. In all of my 38 years of handloading and the need of pulling bullets I only had two other bullets that had cores come loose, one was a 100 grain 30 cal plinker the other a 44 half jacket.
By the way, every one of the pull-downs have been put back together exactly as I received them with exception of the ones that were sent with set back issues or the ones found short on powder. Also due to the shear amount of stuff Intercooler sends and those that are special request fro returns, I send them back to the person who set them.
The _Shadow, I agree 100% about the kinetic puller method. I was just giving an alternative method that I have used from time to time. I still have my old blue Midway puller that I bought probably twenty years ago and it serves me well. Thanks for the additional tips on its use.