Do you think it's even remotely possible to avoid it? Wonder what things will be like when and if it does come?
I have been trying to read up on it and most everything says we just can't avoid it.
It's possible to avoid it but I don't see it happening. I think we're in the middle of a long slow death (fiscally) that's been on the move since shortly after the country was originated. Every once in a while a bandaid is put on the wound, but regardless, however long it takes, the wound ALWAYS gets reinfected.
I'm betting it takes a Zombie Apocalypse or anything else as devastating, assuming enough of us survive whatever it is, to turn things around for the good, which over time will only ever go full circle back to bad, where we then have to start over again with another Zombie Apocalypse or something similarly destructive to human life.
I hope I'm wrong. Best of Luck to All. ;D
The path that our country is on due to the miss use of funds over the years and more recently by the current POTUS has set the dollar on a spirialing path to be worthless and the country into unrecoverable debt. The Government Gone Wild seeks to place us on the EURO system as part of the unification and socialized disorder. :o
Where I live things have been stagnant for several years. Many homes sit vacant, very, very few new home start ups. Little business development........a few new apartment complexes that just seem to send 'yesterdays newest' into Section 8, or whatever the term today for government assisted housing. More and more on Food Stamps etc. In other words, no signs of anything getting better. Probably different in other areas but I don't live there. I figure things won't get worse until the eventual inflation due to our monetary policies. If followed by hyper inflation then the government checks won't buy much and things will quickly get ugly. In talking with people I see no optimism.......
I've sold a few firearms lately that brought decent prices........quite a few other things I'd like to sell but I know they'd have to be priced extremely low to get any interest. 'Forward'....bleh...
Do you think we will see looting and vigilante activity? Lots of lawlessness and fear?
We have a long way to go before we start seeing wide spread looting and vigilante-ism.
Our current economic collapse started with FDR. He wanted to hugely expand federal powers by creating massive federal jobs programs. The supreme court kept striking down the laws he would get pushed through congress. This is the main purpose of the supreme court...to watchdog what the legistlative and executive branches are trying to do and prevent them from usurping powers not granted by the constitution.
FDR threatened to stack the court with extra justices, which also failed. But the threat did persuade a few members of the court to change their vote, giving the current interpretations we have of things like the interstate commerce clause. With this new found expansion of federal power things like social security, medicaid, medicare, and other federal entitlements. This also allowed for things like the 34 NFA, 68 GCA, the FDA and a host of new federal departments.
Our federal budget has rarely been balanced since then, since politicians have the ability to buy support from the public coffers.
Two items of food for thought The biggest budget deficits in the last 30 years occured as a result of bills that were passed under Bush II, even though the actual expenses were incurred under Obama. And, the only balanced budgets during the last 30 years occurred under Bill Clinton and a Republican congress.
The slide towards our doom probably won't occur in my lifetime. It may in my children's. But my life will like see an overall decline in prosperity of 10-15% versus that of my parents.
We can reverse this trend, but not without a major change in either who can vote (eg. no representation without taxation), or in electoral college rules (eg. win a state my taking a majority of counties rather than popular vote state-wide would do it) or in voter attitude (eg. learn what our founders meant for us to have, a republican democracy with a limited federal, and vet candidates based on adherence to those rules).
It is interesting to read the federalist papers against the backdrop of todays federal government. The are a clear call for us to scale back, trim, repeal and muzzle out federal government. They read like far right wing propaganda. And yet they were written by the federal expansionists, the far left, of their day. If ever there was a case illustrating that the slippery slope is not always a logical fallacy, the trajectory of the USA is it.
But I am a crazy old man.
Crazy? Hardly......the only thing I'd question is the 10 to 15% reduction in wealth between the generations. Just the drop in the value of our currency between the 60's till now is frightening. Only the cheapness of Chinese goods has given us the illusion of no loss. A lot of the goods being of less quality and lasting less time is seldom mentioned. Most, at least by now, see the loss in quality jobs in the no longer existing manufacturing base we once had. Toss in the loses in value of property the last few years.......'Forward'.....bleh
I'm not a prepper but I do want to be prepared best I can. Everything I have read says their is no way to fix this and it's unavoidable!
It's mathematically impossible to pay off the debt.This country was bought and sold for over many many years.We are going the way of the State,taxes,police state,drones etc etc.Desperation at every corner.2013 onward is gonna be a dandy indeed.
I don't know about mathematically impossible. Just hard.
16.3 trillion in debt and 312 million people. It works out to $52,250.00 per man/woman/child in the US. There are eight mouths to feed in my house, so my share is about $420,000.00. That is a good bit less than my mortgage for a house big enough for my family in my market.
That debt works out to $250 a month for 30 years on a 4% note.
But that is if we are willing to balance the budget right now, nuke entitlement growth and get rid of the Bush tax cuts. Which, we as a country are not willing to do.
The whole question regarding the effect on the real purchasing power of chinese goods gets into deep economic theory. Suffice it to say that usually, for me, the products I buy today, while falling far short of the absolute quality of previous times, are more than adequate for my needs. Kinda like the arguments about forged versus cast frames. Forged are better, but at my use levels the difference is a forged frame would last four of my lifetimes of shooting, where a cast frame may only last 2. For my needs, the forged frame is wasted money as I am buying value I won't use.
And, the chinese market does benefit us in some ways. For instance, I recently was in the market for a good pair of lace up boots. I generally buy Red Wing. When I shopped I found that one Red Wing boot is now made in China. I complained a bit to the Red Wing store about that. Turns out they had to have that boot made in China, becuase the USA EPA outlawed the use of the adhesive that worked properly for the sole. You can sell a product that was made with the adhesive, but you can't have the adhesive in it's un-cured state in the USA. So, the job went overseas. They make the whole boot and sole here, then send them to China to be glued together, then bring them back to sell. Nice.
This illustrates, in my mind, how we need to change. We need to fire the Federal government from most of it's jobs. Get out of healthcare completely. Drop the war on (failed) drugs. Get out of education. Get out of retirement planning.
The killer to all of this is derivatives. That's 1.6 Quadrillion dollars of hurt which they call Economic Weapons Of Mass Destruction. :o
Numbers are numbers. In there is some good information from a year ago and it's panning out pretty well. By 1st quarter of next year (after handling of the fiscal cliff) we will know exactly how bad it's going to be.
The war on drugs.....now, that is a black hole. Or a money vacuum. I've brought that up to friends thru the years that the economic waste is enormous....did we not learn anything from Prohibition? The reactions were all pretty much the same ...........
Quote from: EdMc on November 22 2012 07:21:40 PM MST
The war on drugs.....now, that is a black hole. Or a money vacuum. I've brought that up to friends thru the years that the economic waste is enormous....did we not learn anything from Prohibition? The reactions were all pretty much the same ...........
I'm with ya 110%!
It's a ponzi scam proped up by central bankers creating everlasting funny money.Are dollar is the worlds reserve currency,but how long is the question.When the dollar get's dumped,look out.Want an idea what one will deal with as a result of economic turmoil,look no further than "Black Friday Zombie Shoppers"wanting what you got. :o
I can understand wanting to protect what you have but this zombie thing is just so far out there. When the marketing people have got hold of it and use it to sell you stuff you know it's never going to happen. Very Y2K in my mind.
It has elements of realism for people as the fiscal problems the US have are causing tough times for a lot of people and it causes frustration but provided resonable measures are put in place (including austerity) it's unlikely to make a noticable change in the standard of living for most people. Perhaps some won't be eligble for the car / house loan they used to have but I'd suggest if you stick to spending only the money you earn you should be fine. The unfortunate part is that goes for your government also who seem to be the worst culprits trying to "buy" votes.
A large proportion of great consumer products are still generated from the US, (Apple, Textiles, Clothing, Footwear, Microsoft) it's just you use the cheap labour in China to produce them. It's time that changed and the US kept more revenue internal. It's an unfortunate outcome of globalisation but you don't need to give it away and it wouldn't have killed the products.
Just some ramblings from an Australian on his third beer... Zombies...Really ??
Zombie is a term i used loosely.I should of said delusional shoppers conducting themselves like thugs over cheap crap.Resonable measures missed the boat long ago,like sound money backed by metal and not created out of thin air.Now their is talk in D.C. which i heard last yr about having IRA and 401K accts of indiviuals to be routed into US Bonds,which by the way are in a bubble presently.Now that's called confiscation.Nobody wants US Bonds anymore,that partys over.
Some trader has made a very big bet that something very bad will happen within the next 60 days.An options trader has made an enormous 11.25 million dollar bet that the VIX will explode higher very soon.And a rally in the VIX is usually accompanied by a drop in the stock markets.The volatility index(aka the VIX,aka the "fear index")is near historic lows.Last week somebody put on a call spread on the VIX using the April 20 and 25 puts.They bought 150,000 contracts for a net of $75 per contract.that is an 11,250.000 bet that the VIX will move over 20 over the next 60 days.One would have to be VERY confident in their outlook to risk $11 million on a directional position with the VIX at 5 yrs LOWS and markets trying to break out to new highs.Bottom line,thats a lot of coin and something is afoot.So springtime,keep aware of a POSSIBLE dollar crises/market dive situation.Personally,im fearing this propped up market is going to get hammered and the dollars days of "The Worlds Reserve Currency" are numbered. :o
Now that's an interesting position to take......11 mil worth. You got a link to the story. I'd like to read it.
The VP today has asked for help from the 'legitimate media'....... ;D An admission that there _is_ an alternative media? A few blog to sites have disappeared lately.
Okay, I found the story with the following correction:
http://www.businessinsider.com/art-cashin-on-big-vix-bet-2013-2
That's it.Also something else going on.A supposed leak from within DHS by the name (Rosebud) from the Hagmann report is making it clear that this spring or just after, will be the hammer down on the dollar.Very intresting read that corresponds with alot of activity up to this point.This supposed insider,and that's what you have to take it for,stated there will be no fiscal deal.
I just try and pray, that if their is a collapse that I will be able to find insulin for my wife. The writing has been on the wall for a long time now and it doesnt look good at all. I look for my blessed hope and wish for the best.
This country "acquired" vast resources of land, timber, gold, oil and brought in "free" labor to help build. Then, within a time-frame a bit longer than the lifespan of a tortoise, is going broke.
Perhaps, the U.S. has a more fundamental problem.
Yeah...We are lazy.
I easily include myself in that group. I do very little directly to improve the ability of the country to see to it's basic needs. I don't produce food, clothing or shelter. When I need those things I buy them.
And most Americans do. We export knowledge and innovation to a market where these items are increasingly difficult to monetize. We have to get back to doing.
Now,I am going back to my greenhouse plans. I hope to be eating fresh tomatoes in February next year here in the mountain west. Gonna start doing my part.
I have been teaching my niece to plant seeds for my vegetable garden, right now we have two variety of tomatoes, bell peppers and cucumbers coming up, soon as it dries out and the sprouts get a little bigger, I show her how to transplant them.
;D
Cool. My oldest daughter makes many of her clothes...Dresses and such. She still buys jeans because cheap ones you can't buy the cloth for what you can buy a pre-made pair. But, she has the skills, and could make her own clothes if she had too.
We are starting a big remodeling project, and I plan to use it as a chance to teach my children about foundations framing, plumbing, wiring. Plus, they will get to participate in the practicals of flooring, finish plumbing and finish carpentry since we are doing everything in the home ourselves post drywall. And we are doing all the basement ourselves.
Still, as a society, too many of us don't end the day having produced anything you can touch. I sit on my but and program databases all day. It is very valuable to my company, based on what they pay me. But it is not like I could eat it, wear it or live in it.
And, I work my 50-60 hours a week and call it good. My grandfather was a farmer. He worked 50 hours a week in the winter doing equipment maintenance. He worked 100 hours a week the rest of the year planting, caring for and harvesting soybeans and corn.
Those people are too few. And guys like me are too many.
I fear the way the economy is going right now is the best we'll ever have to hope for. Sure, things go up and down, but it seems the overall trend is down. Also, I don't get too excited about the amount of money floating around, which is always more and more and they keep the printing presses going full steam ahead. All it ends up doing is devaluing what we already had. Sure, there's more to it than that, still though I don't like the way I see things going overall.
I see folks buying up Gold and Silver and ask myself why. My thinking is this: what is worth more, Gold and Silver or Food and bullets? I believe that a cup of bullets would buy more food than a cup of gold in a full economic meltdown. I think food and bullets are a better investment if that is your concern. Of course bullets as rare as they are becoming these days almost DO cost a cup of gold (well at least maybe silver).
Quote from: P33v3 on February 18 2013 06:39:41 AM MST
I see folks buying up Gold and Silver and ask myself why. My thinking is this: what is worth more, Gold and Silver or Food and bullets? I believe that a cup of bullets would buy more food than a cup of gold in a full economic meltdown. I think food and bullets are a better investment if that is your concern. Of course bullets as rare as they are becoming these days almost DO cost a cup of gold (well at least maybe silver).
I have long said that every good Mormon should have a year supply of whiskey and cigarrettes in their food storage. And agree completely that in an end of days scenario people with gold will likely be hungry. No one with food is likely to sell it for something of so little utility as heavy shiny metal.
I agree. Not going to worry about owning any precious metals to speak of.
Quote from: REDLINE on February 18 2013 11:47:27 AM MST
I agree. Not going to worry about owning any precious metals to speak of.
Lead is a precious metal.
Gold/Silver buyers are preserving their wealth in metals.Govt can and has shown in the past they can either confiscate or reduce it in terms of value.It's just a store of wealth compared to a fiat currency,ie..funny money.Aside from that ,yes,their are other prioritys of survival.Ammo is better than gold when it blows.
Just my twisted view but you can't eat gold or silver. As a nation we haven't used metals for barter or trade in generations. Important things would be food, medicine, seeds bullets, salt ...
We've had a garden for several years. Freeze enough butter beans, tomatoes, and a few other things to use for the year. W/O power those are gone. 'Can' pickles and jellies but that's not enough to live on. Best that it doesn't happen.... ;D
We compost our organic garbage to use in the garden. It seems many things that you do for yourself are like Sqlbullet mentions...it cost more for materials than you can buy the product. Or, at least, close enough not to waste the time. Interesting that cheap imported goods have maintained our standard of living to some degree at the cost of our manufacturing base. If they are cut off or prices are raised substantially ? Share the wealth, indeed.
Plan for the worst. Hope for the best.
Quote from: DM1906 on February 18 2013 02:55:17 PM MST
Lead is a precious metal.
Only precious to a few of us. And I have a goodly stock. In fact, right now at a absolute low point, since I sold off anything I could replace rather than move it, I still have about 800 lbs.
And I expect by spring I will be back up to 3000 lbs. Where I should be. After all, that is only 105,000 200 grain bullets.
Hoarder. :P
Just kidding.... ;)
Sequester time.This is gonna be a dandy.
If you look at the history of this country we have turned away from the true and only God and decided to do things as we please. BOTH sides of the coin have decided they know better than the GOD that made us and blessed this country.
This is what you get when men/woman in government AND in society decide to do things as they please, It is not going to get better simply because everyone wants to do what they want instead of what is right. And there is only ONE definition of what is right , The word of GOD.
Sean
Id say this country turned away from God along time ago.It's also been manipulated by forces ie..Central Bankers with no alligance but to themselves.1913 truley buried this country.
Quote from: 475/480 on February 27 2013 06:43:06 AM MSTIf you look at the history of this country we have turned away from the true and only God and decided to do things as we please. BOTH sides of the coin have decided they know better than the GOD that made us and blessed this country.
This is what you get when men/woman in government AND in society decide to do things as they please, It is not going to get better simply because everyone wants to do what they want instead of what is right. And there is only ONE definition of what is right , The word of GOD.
Sean
The Word of God warns us of the same and more.
Agenda 21.
So far so good
Quote from: pacapcop on March 01 2013 07:05:54 PM MSTAgenda 21.
I wish I had reason to believe it couldn't happen.