I see a number of folks saying they will carry something other than their best 10 so that if they have to use it in a defensive situation they will not lose it as evidence for some time, maybe a long time. I don't get that at all so wonder if I'm missing something. Personally, I've been carrying for about 28 years and have never felt the need to draw or even had the thought I might need to and I suspect that is the case for just about everyone. But if the situation arises where my carry gun needs to be used don't I want my very best pistol for the purpose in my hand? Is it not far more important to have my best shooter in my hand if I'm in a position where I have to shoot it defensively? Yes, it may become evidence for a time or even disappear but if I'm not going to have it available when I need it is it not mere decoration for my gun safe?
It seems to me that the chance of having to actually use it are minuscule but that I would want the best available if I did need it. Now if I could shoot my EAA Witness as well as my Sig I can see why I'd prefer to have my EAA seized but, if not, don't I want the best in my hand and I live with the post encounter ramifications, whatever they might be?
Obviously others feel differently so I'd appreciate knowing the underlying logic. ```
I agree with you 100%. for as many times as I have had to use my pistol (been carrying legally since the early 80s) and had it taken from me. (0) I can't see worrying about my "good gun" being "held for evidence". the reason I have a carry gun that I am proficient with and like to carry is that it will be 100% reliable and help me get out of a bad situation. in a bad situation, I want the best! it the worst ever happens and the Cops have to hold it for Court, oh well,hopefully the pistol did its part and I am still alive.
I have a few guns, some better than others, some more costly...
Some of them I can shoot very well but I don't carry them for a number of reason... And yes cost is one. My main carry is a G20. I know it will go bang if needed, can still hit inside of a 4" circle and cost was low. Carrying my Sig 220 ,which cost almost 3x as much , is a waste as it isn't 3x more accurate for me....not to mention carrying it all the time does put some wear and tear on its looks...not an issue either as I can easily replace the Glock
Here is what DocGKR says about the topic. He doesn't address specifically the issue of cost of a specific gun and whether to carry it. I follow his recommendation & stop before the third due to affordability.
"After having gone through the juvenile collector stage of idiotically wasting money by purchasing one or two of every type of service pistol ever produced, I finally grew-up and realized it is far better to strive to master one quality pistol type, then be perpetually mediocre with many. I strongly recommend purchasing two or three identical pistols once you have decided upon the model that you plan to use, carry, and train with. I dedicate one pistol for carry after thoroughly vetting function with 1000 or so rounds through it. Another identical pistol is solely used for training--it is shot till it breaks with minimal cleaning or babying during its service life. If I am able to afford a third pistol, it serves as a back-up to the other two and usually sits in an easily accessible safe as a readily available personal defense weapon mounting an x300u light."
I am one of those guys.
Sneed, you are making a couple of assumptions that, at least in my case, aren't accurate.
My "favorite" 10mm pistol is my Para P16-40 that I converted to 10mm. When I bought this gun it was a 40 shorty and looked like this:
(http://fellingfamily.net/images/origLeft.jpg)
I reamed it to 10mm, removed the magwell, changed the trigger, mag release, thumb safety, main spring housing and most significantly, radius and cut the frame for a high ride beavertail grip safety. I filed, buffed and soda blasted the frame back to new. And I filed, sanded, buffed, sand-blasted and cerakoted the slide. End result in the back of this photo.
(http://fellingfamily.net/images/theP_Pair.jpg)
I poured my heart and soul into this gun, and continue to do so. It is easily my favorite.
But, I don't shoot this gun any better than I shoot my Glock 20. And my Glock 20 is measurably more reliable. And I am not "invested" in my Glock like I am my 1911.
If you replace the term "favorite" with "best defensive 10mm handgun" I agree. But for my those two are not the same gun. And when I choose a gun to defend my life I choose that is best suited to the job.
Quote from: sqlbullet on October 10 2017 07:52:42 AM MDT
If you replace the term "favorite" with "best defensive 10mm handgun" I agree. But for my those two are not the same gun. And when I choose a gun to defend my life I choose that is best suited to the job.
I accept that qualification as it was really what I meant thus the title to my inquiry: "Your best or something else." I would still like to hear from others who feel differently.
Four years ago ... I made a poor judgement leaving a motorcycle rally. My carry piece that day was my Dan Wesson Valor Bobtail (favorite, costliest, best shooting, etc.).
Early that day the pistol was locked into my saddlebag 'cause I accepted a Bloody Mary. Placing that pistol into the saddlebag is my last memory of that pistol. Fast forward many hours and I decided that going home was not a good idea. I borrowed a camp and went to sleep with the plan of getting home when I was appropriately sober.
I woke shortly before sunrise and thought I was good to go on that early Sunday morning. I woke up from a coma 4 days later. Next day, the State Trooper that arranged my Life Flight visited the hospital and returned my wallet, holster and keys. I asked how I would go about arranging to pick up my pistol and he averted his gaze.
Although the pistol was secured in my locked saddlebag ... the circumstances resulted in a weapons charge against me. It took a couple years, but the judge finally dismissed the charge if, and only if, I surrendered the pistol. Well, I surrendered the pistol in the interest of finishing my lawyers billable hours collection and being done.
I carried my DW Silverback twice last week - my current favorite, costliest, best shooting, etc. I generally carry one of Sig 938, STI Duty One (45ACP) or DW Silverback (10mm). The Sig (most carried) is a relatively inexpensive pistol but I shoot it plenty well and it hides well enough to be nearly forgotten. The STI and the Dan Wesson are substantial investments in my collection, but I shoot them best and if I'm going to need a defensive carry piece - that's my only priority. I have additional 1911s which are less expensive but they rarely make it to my hip.
I will echo what many have said in earlier post. I carry my G20SF as my duty gun. It is expendable even with the things I have changed to make it easier for me to shoot well, ie. removed finger humps, install TRuGlo TFX sights, radius the right back trigger guard, opened the lower inside of the trigger guard and added Talon Rubber Grips. I used to carry my Colt DE SS before retiring the first time. It never let me down either but the Glock holds more ammo and was not a gift like the DE. IMHO I have the 2 best 10MM ever made.
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Quote from: dred on October 10 2017 06:35:48 PM MDT
The STI and the Dan Wesson are substantial investments in my collection, but I shoot them best and if I'm going to need a defensive carry piece - that's my only priority.
Sounds like we're in complete agreement. What I don't get are those who carry inexpensive, or at least less expensive, pistols than the ones they shoot best with so they do not lose their best after an incident of some kind. To me it seems like they just don't ever expect to have to use their carry gun so they choose the pistol to carry based on that assumption even though there might only be a problem with law enforcement if they did have to use it. I know if I'm ever in a situation where I actually have to draw I want the pistol I'm best with in my hands to maximize the chances I'll survive & I'll deal with whatever consequences there are afterwards.
I do not understand those who think otherwise and that was why I started this topic.
The best shooting 10 i own is the G40...too long to EDC, but i do woods carry with a chest holster.
The Ruger SR 1911...not enough rounds
The most valuable 10s are the S&W 610s....too long, not enough rounds, and too costly to replace.
The G29 SF (with G20 mag) is the 10 that is best suited for carry. It, and sometimes a G27, are the EDC. They're reliable tools that can be replaced.
It's funny looking back at how anti-Glock I used to be. For years I carried various Witness pistols (through the bad years when the mags were bad and the damn things would jam every other round). I've never encountered a base model or polymer Witness that didn't have issues with jams, although the higher end guns are good. One day at the range my friend let me shoot his Glock 20. I did 10 straight mags without one hiccup. I couldn't believe it. I now carry a Glock 29. It's never had a jam or FTF. It cost me $450. If the cops took it I would have no problem replacing it. It's ugly and has no real sentimental value.
My carry gun i want to be reliable and accurate... don't have to carry the 'best' , most expensive gun in my stable.
Glock fits both and is cheap... I beat them up and they still work.
My carry is the cheap gun that always goes bang.
Several Years ago I finally broke down and spent the money on my first higher end 1911 pistol, a NHC 10mm. Prior to that I bought Colt 1911 pistols and later Kimber 1911 pistols and later Dan Wesson 1911 pistols. For 30 years I've read about and heard about high end 1911 pistols, but, didn't believe they could be worth the cost. So, I finally broke down and spent the money on one. And I found that yes, they are that much better than ordinary, garden variety Colts, Kimbers, and Dan Wessons.
And for over a year I was afraid to carry that NHC 10mm because I was afraid of the old BS about police confiscating it for evidence in a defensive shooting and keeping it for a year and maybe scratching it up. Then the light bulb clicked on. That NHC is my best 10mm 1911 pistol. It is the most accurate, the most ergonomic, and the most reliable. The whole purpose of carrying a firearm is to defend your life against a thug (or any savage animal, whether two or four legged) that is threatening to kill me or an innocent third party. It is my "life insurance" pistol and for that reason I would want to be using the absolute best - most accurate and most reliable pistol I have when my life depends on it.
I'd rather have my NHC collecting scratches in a police evidence lock up rather than me rotting in a coffin 6 feet under ground while my spotless, mint condition NHC remains sitting in my locked safe. That's what's important to me.
My witness match is just too big and currently not very reliable. My Ruger sr1911 is on the big end, not enough rounds, and no night sights. My Glock 40 although I enjoy the heck out of it is huge. My Glock 29 is a great compact size and it works every time. I shoot it the least accurately out of these but still quite decently. If size wasn't a constraint then the Glock 40 would come with me. These Glocks have upgrades too btw. I don't like Glock out of the box.
I used to carry my Glock 20 or 29 depending on how hot it was. That changed after I got the Grand Power 10mm. What it cost me doesn't matter, how it shoots and how I shoot it is what matter. I can always buy another GP, but I only go around once. Love my Glocks, love my Sig and Colt and RIA, but there is only one me. And that man shoots and carries a Grand Power 10mm.
Quote from: PCFlorida on October 17 2017 05:19:20 PM MDT
I used to carry my Glock 20 or 29 depending on how hot it was. That changed after I got the Grand Power 10mm. What it cost me doesn't matter, how it shoots and how I shoot it is what matter. I can always buy another GP, but I only go around once. Love my Glocks, love my Sig and Colt and RIA, but there is only one me. And that man shoots and carries a Grand Power 10mm.
+1.. Now that I found Galco leather that fits it nicely I'm with you. Will carry the 14 round GP.
I have a number of guns I carry on occasion. Got my CPL 30 years ago. But price does not influence on what I carry. If I loose a gun due to having to use it, it will be a small price to pay for my safety.
Most of mine are Colts because they work and I shoot them so much better then a plastic gun. But alot depends on were I will be carring it and what the weather is going to be like. So that's why I carry my Colt Mustang 380 loaded with +p Underwood ammo when its hot outside and you have to wear a t shirt or a tank top, another one is my Colt .45 XSE Combat Commander when it's a little cooler out, and then I also pack my Colt Delta Elite for my morning walks out where I live in the country and when winter comes that is the gun I pack the most, I have it loaded with 180 gr XTPs from Underwood and there the hot ones :) 1,350 fps through my crono !! I Do have one tuperware gun and thats a 9mm Shield which sometimes I will pack,but the 1911s shoot sooooo much better!! and that's what you want to do is be able to hit what your shooting at right? and not pack something you can't shoot just because it's the "latest Fad and everyone else is doing it to"
If I'm unlucky enough to find myself in a situation that I need to defend the life of my family, I want to give myself the most unfair advantage possible.
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100% agree. If I'm ever in a deadly force encounter, I want the very best tool for the task at hand. If it gets confiscated, so be it.
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Quote from: Sneed on October 11 2017 09:51:43 AM MDT
Quote from: dred on October 10 2017 06:35:48 PM MDT
The STI and the Dan Wesson are substantial investments in my collection, but I shoot them best and if I'm going to need a defensive carry piece - that's my only priority.
Sounds like we're in complete agreement. What I don't get are those who carry inexpensive, or at least less expensive, pistols than the ones they shoot best with so they do not lose their best after an incident of some kind. To me it seems like they just don't ever expect to have to use their carry gun so they choose the pistol to carry based on that assumption even though there might only be a problem with law enforcement if they did have to use it. I know if I'm ever in a situation where I actually have to draw I want the pistol I'm best with in my hands to maximize the chances I'll survive & I'll deal with whatever consequences there are afterwards. I do not understand those who think otherwise and that was why I started this topic.
It seems to me that your assessment of "they shoot best" is the ambiguity in your quest.
How "best" is good enough for a "defensive shoot" that takes place at 3-15 feet? Do you define "best" by group size? speed? placement? some combination of all the above?
I was trained as an NRA Pistol Instructor and Personal Defense Instructor in 2000. I taught formal CCW classes for the folks to obtain their license through the local Sheriff's Dept. for 7 years.
Since the only 10MM pistols I own are all Glocks, I will make an example with my 45ACP pistol collection. I can draw and shoot five rounds on an 8" pie plate target at 7 yards with my Glock 21, my SIG P220, my Kimber Super match II, and my Colt Commander 1911. All four in the same amount of time, with the same number of 5 hits on the plate. The only difference is the group size, that varies by no more than 2" between the Glock and the Kimber.
So, in my mind, I'm going to carry the inexpensive Glock, that holds more ammo, rather than the very expensive Kimber, with less ammo, for the simple reason that IF I have to use it, I have more rounds available AND I will probably lose it. I would rather lose the $600 gun than the $2,400 gun.
If you own only ONE hand gun, the point is moot. If you own several, then you probably have guns you like to shoot at the range, and guns you use for carry. To my mind, you should practice enough with all of them to be equally proficient with ANY of them. But that's just me. ;)