Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: Underwood 200gr Hard Cast provided by Intercooler Nov 2017
Ballistics Information: 10mm Auto
Muzzle Velocity: 1250 fps
Muzzle Energy: 694 ft. lbs
Brass Make/Headstamp: Underwood - Nickel
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.6760"/Dia. 0.4015"/ Hard Cast 200gr. HC Actual weight 198.8 / 199.4 grains
Meplat 0.2800": top band 0.1640"/bottom band 0.1600"/lube groove 0.1200"/nose 0.2400"
C.O.A.L.: 1.2480" / 1.2475"
Primer: Large Pistol primer Nickel color
Case: Diameter 0.4215" Crimp Diameter 0.4225" / 0.4230" Length 0.9850"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: Power Pistol 8.4/ 8.4 grains
(https://s20.postimg.cc/vlrm5zpil/IMG_0254.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/t4fuys325/IMG_0255.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/k9f0o96jx/IMG_0256.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/h2kh4n1jh/IMG_0257.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/gebmlr09p/IMG_0258.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/3mxgf8irx/IMG_0259.jpg)
Is this the first 200 dissections? Any idea on the bullet?
Made a change to the energy figure. :-[
Looks like the old Lyman TC, but So many molds are out there...They list it as Bullet Style: Hardcast Flat Nose 21 BHN
In the past he used Rim Rock. I wonder if this is from them?
The Underwood bullet has a flat base and Rimrock .40/10MM 200 GR. TC " THE OUTDOORSMAN" shows a tapered base.
(https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/images/product/40200grtc.png)
I'm interested in using this round -- and reloads that replicate it -- in my new Glock 20.
Underwood now shows it as a Hi-Tek coated bullet so I'm wondering if other changes have been made.
Anyone know who makes this 200-grain Hi-Tek coated 21BHN bullet? And would Power Pistol still seem to be the likely powder they use? I have been loading with BE-86 and would like to see how it works with a 200-grain hard cast..
If any of our pulldown experts would like I'd be happy to provide the needed rounds for testing. Additionally, I have a LabRadar and will be testing this ammo in the next week or two and will post the results.
Thanks,
Commo
(SE Michigan)
I bought some and they are a different bullet. The box says, "200gr Hi-Tek Coated Hard Cast FN, 1250 fps". The bullets have a maroon color coating. I chronographed them at 1235 fps from my 6" Kimber. They were the best grouping rounds I've fired so far! Personally, I'm glad they're coated.
I shot all of mine up :( but I'm about to order some more. :)
It does appear that Underwood has switched from traditionally lubed cast bullets to the powder coated version in 200 grain.
Just wanted to say, you guys do an awesome job on these!
Quote from: Kenk on August 15 2018 06:37:59 AM MDT
Just wanted to say, you guys do an awesome job on these!
Agreed!
How do you pop apart these pistol rounds, I'm assuming a hammer-type puller? I have pulled rifle rounds with a Hornady Cam-lock puller and it seems like I wouldn't be able to get a grip on pistol rounds.
I'm ordering a couple boxes (I wish they sold them in 50-round boxes) so the offer stands if someone would like to conduct an official pull down analysis..
Commo
Kinetic bullet puller.
On a 4x4 block of wood, or so I have been told, regardless; it works for my needs
Yes I use a Kinetic bullet puller from RCBS Older from the late 70's, I strike it on the end grain of 4" x 4" block about 2 foot long standing on the carpeted floor. I also strike it so it doesn't bounce when it contacts the block, watch for when the bullet is about to pull free as to get it to just drop out softly. This so I collect all of the powder and not have any bounce out of the puller.
Then working over a clean sheet of typing paper, I pour the powder out into the scale pan while catching the bullet. I use a small paint brush to sweep any powder off of the bullet into the pan and off my fingers if there is any. Depends on the type of powder. I also use a "D Cell Battery" to tap the puller to dislodge any powder that might stick inside the tube. However when it is clean and free of bullet lube or other stuff powder usually doesn't stay inside.
If any specks or kernels of powder miss the scale pan, they will be on the clean paper and can be picked up and put in the pan. I am very meticulous when working with the pull downs. Accuracy is the key to the documentations...
I have pulled so many cartridges down with this puller, I wore out the original three jaw set. RCBS actually set me a new set free of charge.
Quote from: Kenk on August 15 2018 05:41:57 PM MDT
On a 4x4 block of wood, or so I have been told, regardless; it works for my needs
I find concrete, or an anvil to work better. Wood "gives" some and that is energy that doesn't go into pulling the bullet.
Quote from: sqlbullet on August 16 2018 12:02:04 PM MDT
Quote from: Kenk on August 15 2018 05:41:57 PM MDT
On a 4x4 block of wood, or so I have been told, regardless; it works for my needs
I find concrete, or an anvil to work better. Wood "gives" some and that is energy that doesn't go into pulling the bullet.
Yea, but the puller will love the wood, as the concrete or anvil may impart that energy right back in the form of a crack or failure to the Kinetic bullet puller. Just about everyone of the failed pullers were hit on concrete or steel. These newer pullers with plastic handles seem to fail often. ??? :(
Yep, after replacing my old puller, my new RCBS puller is running strong with the wood block method
Thanks
Ken
I think the failures come from guys that are used to having to whack away on wood. If you swing it at concrete the way you have to swing at wood, you will definitely damage the puller. I know the one time I put a ding in the snout of my puller it was after swinging away 4-5 solid blows on a block of wood with the bullet not even moving...Then I hit an anvil with similar force...Bullet came clear out, puller rebounded way back and I had a divot out of the nose of the puller.
I find 1-2 gentle taps on the top of my RCBS Rock Chucker is plenty to pull all but the most stout military sealed rounds.
I believe I have bent or broken at least two impact bullet pullers before I realized less was more.
I tried your Rock Chucker tap method last night, and actually like that better than the wood block...Thanks for the great idea!
From the description and photos of the bullet I would bet that they are using the Hi=tech coated bullets from Missouri bullet Company, I have used several thousand of their 180gr coated bullets and they are fantastic.
Some of Underwood's newer offerings are shown as cast are Hi-Tek coated bullets... https://www.underwoodammo.com/products/10mm-auto-200-grain-hard-cast-flat-nose?variant=7865916751929 (https://www.underwoodammo.com/products/10mm-auto-200-grain-hard-cast-flat-nose?variant=7865916751929)
We haven't had the chance to get any in to document them! :(
As mentioned above I have been studying this new version of the Underwood round, finally got an RCBS kinetic puller and here are some data to peruse til an official pulldown can be done.
Using a LabRadar chrono this clocked at 1176 fps muzzle velocity through my Glock 20 Gen 4..
(https://www.ausabletrout.com/uploads/2/1/6/7/21677070/underwood200grbox-sm.jpg)
I pulled down one round from a box of 20 purchased recently direct from Underwood..
(https://www.ausabletrout.com/uploads/2/1/6/7/21677070/underwood200grhitek-sm.jpg)
The Hi-Tek coated bullet has one lube groove..it weighed 197.4 grains on my digital scale.
(https://www.ausabletrout.com/uploads/2/1/6/7/21677070/underwood200grpowder-sm.jpg)
This one had 8.3 grains of what looks similar to the Power Pistol mentioned in the original pulldown..the weight bounced back & forth to 8.4 grains before it settled to 8.3 so I think it's close to the 8.4 grains found originally.
I still have some I can contribute to the official pulldown thread if desired.
Thanks,
Commo
The powder in your picture you have shown in the pan is Hodgdon LongShot a silvery gray flatten ball powder. 8.4 grains LongShot was found in the 220 as well.
Power pistols is a fine cut flake dull gray/black color...but was found in the original post Nov 2017
Longshot it is!
Thanks,
Commo
Any thoughts on who makes this bullet?
As bear10 mentioned it does look like an MBC Steeler Hi-Tek bullet. MBC says their bullet is 18bhn and Underwood says 21bhn, otherwise they sure look alike..I'm likely to order at least a sample pack from MBC to see if I can replicate this load. I have loaded about 1500 of their 200 grain SWCs in 45ACP and have great results..
Don't know if they'll tell me but I'm going to put a query to MBC and will report back..
Commo
commo, The MBC Steeler Hi-Tek bullet, shows a very long frontal band above the lube grove...
This is the picture they show for it...
(http://missouribullet.com/cw3/assets/product_expanded/ht_steeler.jpg)
The bullet you show doesn't appear to have that long of frontal band...Its hard to say exactly where UW is getting his bullets and things change as suppliers change.
Hmm, the MBC does look deeper, but maybe it's the angle I shot my original pic from.. here's another shot from eye level..
(https://www.ausabletrout.com/uploads/2/1/6/7/21677070/underwood200gr-sm.jpg)
Commo
Already heard back from Brad Alpert, Director, Global Strategery & Operations Manager at Missouri Bullet Company...he said they don't sell direct to Underwood but a distributor might..
Brad says, "it's a standard mould that comes from Magma Engineering, the folks who make all the casting equipment that everyone uses. Most casting companies don't make that bullet, preferring to stick with the .40 Short and Weak (.40 S&W) family of lighter bullets. But I'm a Colt Delta Elite guy from way back, so naturally I wanted to make it for fellow fans."
I believe he's talking about their product specifically and not claiming the Underwood bullet is an MBC; I'm going to order in a bunch and give 'em a try.
Commo
That angle of the bullet is easier to see the longer front band. Thanks for posting it!
So I've got 500 MBC 200-grain bullets on the way, and just purchased a pound of LongShot..with some new Starline cases I'll soon report back on how my clones are shooting...
Commo
Nice, will be very helpful info
Thanks
Ken
QuoteSo I've got 500 MBC 200-grain bullets on the way, and just purchased a pound of LongShot..with some new Starline cases I'll soon report back on how my clones are shooting...
Before you start stuffing brass, you probably need to know that the "longshot" that UW uses is not going to be the same Longshot you can buy. There is a major difference between canister and non-canister powder. Not to rain on this parade as these pull downs are interesting but you can't use this information in the loads you make unless they are within the loading data guidelines. Commercial ammo makers do not load by weight but by velocity, just like the military. The reason is simple, non-canister powder that they buy of a specific powder may not have the same burn rate per run number or batch number. The weight of the powder charge is adjusted accordingly which may put the canister powder you buy in the danger zone. Always start low and work up and remember, pistol cartridges are sometimes of low pressure and may not show signs of excessive pressure on the brass. An example would be something like a 38-40 pistol round. The gun will be in many pieces long before the brass shows any signs of pressure. Do not exceed any published data regardless of what you find in any commercial round.
Personally, I tend to avoid the nuclear loads at home, leaving that to companies like UW, it is fun to see what others come up with that are more gutsy than myself : )