https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skj6k9vSbR0&t=95s
Which one I would prefer as a trail round
Good video Mr. Revolverguy,
I agree with your assessment. I have a Ruger 4" 357 magnum that I feel very comfortable toting into the sticks (although I don't have 10mm revolver) but far more often select the 10mm which in my case is a G20 cause I still favor the power, control & capacity.
Thanks for sharing your video.
I have carried .45ACP into the woods for years. My first .45 was a S&W M1917. I loaded it with full moon clips and it was my "trail" gun for several years. I replaced it with a 1911. Recently, I got the itch for something a little more powerful. I tried changing springs and small parts in my Colt 1991Z and shooting .45 Super. What a disaster. It beat me up, beat the gun up, and mean time between failures was probably ten rounds!
I realized the only proper thing to do was to purchase another pistol. I love the 1911 platform. So I looked at many options, including the Coonan in .357 Mag. --- http://www.coonaninc.com/product/357-magnum-classic/
I had never paid attention to the 10mm up to this point. But once I "discovered" the 10mm I started looking at all sorts of things about it. I focused on my requirements and compared the options. I wanted more - more bullet diameter, more bullet mass, and more bullet momentum. More than the .357 would provide. In the end, it came down to a decision between a 10mm 1911 and a .45 auto that could handle .45 Super with no changes, right out of the box. I decided on a 6" barreled (for a little more!) 10mm and I'm glad I did.
Someday I may pick up a .357 Magnum Coonan auto so I can have even MORE fun. But the 10mm will still be my "trail" gun.
The 10mm can be equal or better than the 357....
Alone for the 15 rounds in a G20 , I would pick it between the two.
Yep, the 357 is fun as well an effective rd, but with the ability to shoot 16 rd's from the G20 before reloading, gosh, that's lot of firepower : )
Many moons ago when the 357 was still a magnum, I loaded the Speer half jacket 146gr HP with 8.6 grs of Hercules Unique. That put velocity at a hair over 1400'ps out of a 6" Python. The load was rifle accurate out of the Python and kills were like a Peterbilt fell from the sky on coyote sized animals. Finished off a few deer that city hunters wounded with the gun too. Kills were near instant. Now, the 357 is just a large cased 38 Special and nothing like it once was. The design pressure of the gun was 47,500CUPs. That's down to somewhere around 35-37,000CUPs. Most of it is due to cheap crap import pistols that couldn't stand up to the pressure. You can also add Smith & Wesson to the list of pistols too weak to accept a full diet of magnum loads. But life goes on. Wish I could find a bunch of those 146gr Half Jackets. They were the pinnacle for a 357 mag. And no, the 140gr bullets aren't the same, not even close.
The 10mm will get you a lot closer to having an old 357 mag with a 150gr bullet that you can get up to 1450'ps. The obvious advantage of the 10mm is the option to go a lot heavier on bullet weight IF you need the penetration a heavier bullet brings to the game. Depending on the game you expect to encounter, I'd suggest taking a look at the 135gr Nosler at 1500'ps. If the gun will shoot the load accurately, it's a pretty darn good bullet. Think of it as a 9mm Extra Magnum.
Quote from: Trapper6L on August 11 2018 04:05:54 PM MDT
Many moons ago when the 357 was still a magnum, I loaded the Speer half jacket 146gr HP with 8.6 grs of Hercules Unique. That put velocity at a hair over 1400'ps out of a 6" Python. The load was rifle accurate out of the Python and kills were like a Peterbilt fell from the sky on coyote sized animals. Finished off a few deer that city hunters wounded with the gun too. Kills were near instant. Now, the 357 is just a large cased 38 Special and nothing like it once was. The design pressure of the gun was 47,500CUPs. That's down to somewhere around 35-37,000CUPs. Most of it is due to cheap crap import pistols that couldn't stand up to the pressure. You can also add Smith & Wesson to the list of pistols too weak to accept a full diet of magnum loads. But life goes on. Wish I could find a bunch of those 146gr Half Jackets. They were the pinnacle for a 357 mag. And no, the 140gr bullets aren't the same, not even close.
The 10mm will get you a lot closer to having an old 357 mag with a 150gr bullet that you can get up to 1450'ps. The obvious advantage of the 10mm is the option to go a lot heavier on bullet weight IF you need the penetration a heavier bullet brings to the game. Depending on the game you expect to encounter, I'd suggest taking a look at the 135gr Nosler at 1500'ps. If the gun will shoot the load accurately, it's a pretty darn good bullet. Think of it as a 9mm Extra Magnum.
That's pretty hot but Underwood Ammo & Buffalo Bore still load at or above the levels your looking for.
I couldn't make up my mind so I got both. With the correct bullet they both get the job done.
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I love both rounds and have numerous .357 S&Ws, but EDC a G29 (with G20 mag). I used to woods carry a 3 7/8" 610-2, but it has been replaced by a 627-5. Bobcats and coyotes are the only threats around here, 8 rounds of .357 will do just fine. No need to buy another holster either.
To do an absolute fair comparison you need to use bullets of the same sectional density. Look for the heaviest Underwood load of each that has the same sectional density bullet, the 158gr .357 will have the same SD as the 200gr bullet in a 10mm. Now do the test and you will be very surprised, with Underwood, the .357 will actually beat the 10. I love my 10mms, but to be scientifically correct, bullets of the same sectional densities must be used. Especially for a trail gun, penetration will be an important factor due to the numerous situations, and shot angles one might run into, sectional density plays an extremely important role in how the bullet penetrates and performs.
In a revolver, either will do the job. Because of platforms such as Glock and Tangfolio, the 10mm would get my nod due to round count and with the 200gr bullet(you can never have enough ammunition in a life and death situation; yes you shouldn't miss on your first shot, but anyone who's been there knows how much human physiology and psyche play into this).
A well done video.
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Todd is spot on about comparing bullet of the same SD.
But it doesn't stop there. Most ammo makers post velocity numbers based on SAAMI spec barrels. For 357 Mag there are two specs. A "vented" barrel, by which they mean a revolver that has a cylinder gap, and a non-vented barrel, like in a semi-auto or a contender. The vented barrel spec length is 4" of barrel + the cylinder for a total of 5.63". Non-vented barrel length is 10".
I don't know what barrel length Underwood uses to test, but event a 4" barrel 357 Mag has a some serious length advantage on a Glock 20, about an inch or about 50 fps.
So, you have to check test barrel length and normalize those velocities. And a Glock 20 4.6" barrel is more like a 3" barrel 357 Mag.
Finally muzzle energy has to factor into this as well as velocity.
One last thing to remember is that an auto loader is usually a fair bit more compact than a revolver. A S&W 686 with a 4" barrel is the same overall length as a Glock 40. While not a ballistics advantage per se, how easy to carry is a significant factor. Ultimate we are concerned with the firepower in the package.
The Glock 40 offers a 200 grain bullet moving an honest 1300+ fps and 16 rounds on tap with lightening fast reloads. That is a lot of advantage over a S&W 686 with a 4" barrel.
With a 6.5" barreled S&W Model 610, you have the equivalent of a 7" long slide self-loader. I doubt that you would have any trouble killing deer effectively at ranges up to 100 yards with most 200-grain JHP or 150-grain Underwood running out of the S&W 610's longer barrel at about 1500 fps yielding 750 foot-pounds at the muzzle.
The Lehigh "Extreme Hunter" bullet penetrates well and disrupts tissue better than most Jacketed Hollow Point ammunition. No expansion is needed to achieve the desired goals.
Quote from: sqlbullet on August 12 2018 07:38:09 PM MDT
One last thing to remember is that an auto loader is usually a fair bit more compact than a revolver. A S&W 686 with a 4" barrel is the same overall length as a Glock 40. While not a ballistics advantage per se, how easy to carry is a significant factor. Ultimate we are concerned with the firepower in the package.
As a package, the G40 imho trounces the 4" 357 revolvers. Better aftermarket sights and mini red dot mounting option built it.
I betcha a WML attached to the G40 would be pretty close in weight to 686.
Quote from: sqlbullet on August 12 2018 07:38:09 PM MDT
One last thing to remember is that an auto loader is usually a fair bit more compact than a revolver. A S&W 686 with a 4" barrel is the same overall length as a Glock 40. While not a ballistics advantage per se, how easy to carry is a significant factor. Ultimate we are concerned with the firepower in the package.
The Glock 40 offers a 200 grain bullet moving an honest 1300+ fps and 16 rounds on tap with lightening fast reloads. That is a lot of advantage over a S&W 686 with a 4" barrel.
As for carrying, here are some size comparison pics of my EDC G29 (G20 mags), and S&W N-frame (this one is .45, a 627 snub's 8-shot .357 cylinder is a touch wider).
Regardless of ammo brand, weight, performance, etc....16 rounds of 10mm vs. 8 rounds of .357?...not hard for me to decide.
BTW, the two most accurate handguns i own are the G40, and a Performance Center 686-4 "Light hunter" (.357, 6" barrel).
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Quote from: Rojo27 on August 10 2018 09:06:13 PM MDT(although I don't have 10mm revolver)
I do! ;)
(https://i.imgur.com/j36pbKE.jpg)
Yep, the G40 is right up there for future purchases
Quote from: Kenk on August 20 2018 08:31:59 AM MDT
Yep, the G40 is right up there for future purchases
I don't know, I already own the prior shown Ruger Super Redhawk. It would be between that or maybe this. (Which I also already own.)
(https://i.imgur.com/LImmVvE.jpg)
Beautiful 1911
Let's not forget that Rock Island has a dual stack 1911 10MM 16 rounds. Though in the situation I am talking about my first tactic is to avoid the conflict no matter if it is two legged or 4 legged, I just want to be left alone and I will surely leave it or them alone lol.
Yep, really like my RIA FS HC 10, and yes, avoid a conflict if at all possible : )
I had no choice..........I had a handful of old 30 Remington cases I goofed up and was casting 38-40 bullets ............so I had to buy a a 10 mm revolver....10mm/38-40 Buckeye Ruger BlackHawk and cause I am lazy I had to get the Ruger Super RedHawk so I didn't have to switch cylinders and less work than a single action...
So I had no choice :o
I have not solid reason why, I just prefer the 10mm.
Quote from: REM1875 on August 25 2018 10:35:52 AM MDT
I had no choice..........I had a handful of old 30 Remington cases I goofed up and was casting 38-40 bullets ............so I had to buy a a 10 mm revolver....10mm/38-40 Buckeye Ruger BlackHawk and cause I am lazy I had to get the Ruger Super RedHawk so I didn't have to switch cylinders and less work than a single action...
So I had no choice :o
I kept looking for one of those, but they were just way too expensive......when I could even FIND one!
I'll take a revolver every time for woods carry.
No amount of capacity is going to make up for the Glock's trigger vs most revolvers.
I have been doing allot playing around nd with the 10mm GP101 and frankly loaded with 200 grain cast I much prefer it to any of my 357 Magnum revolvers. As far as comparing to an auto loader well that like apples and oranges. But I will take my 10 over any 357 just a 10mm thang I guess.... ;D
Quote from: jamestap on October 09 2018 07:37:41 PM MDT
I'll take a revolver every time for woods carry.
No amount of capacity is going to make up for the Glock's trigger vs most revolvers.
Single action I agree. Double action I disagree.
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I worship at the Temple of Momentum. IMHO Big heavy bullets at moderate velocity make thru and thru holes that leak a lot. AND I like revolvers. I shoot autos better but there's just something to a good revolver and time in the woods that is calming for my soul.
Plus it's America! You can own as many as you want. 8)
Quote from: Mike D on October 10 2018 03:24:22 PM MDT
Quote from: jamestap on October 09 2018 07:37:41 PM MDT
I'll take a revolver every time for woods carry.
No amount of capacity is going to make up for the Glock's trigger vs most revolvers.
Single action I agree. Double action I disagree.
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I donno. I jut traded in a single action Ruger Superblackhawk for a double action Ruger Redhawk, I prefer the DA. And I just got the DA Ruger Super Redhawk in 10mm, and I like it a WHOLE lot.
Great video.. thanks for sharing..
The 357 mag and 10mm are two of my favorite cartridges...
For years my go to for SD carry and woods carry was a Security Six with 158gr GD for wooda carry and for street carry I switched to Remington 125gr SJHP ...
Now I carry a 29 or 20 with UW 200gr XTP in woods and UW 180gr GD for street ... Main reaso I switched.. Was higher capacity, larger frontal area .400 vs .358 and I have found my Glocks completely realiable just like my revolvers....
While stomping in tbe woods , 2 legged predators most likely would out number 4 legged ...
I have 3 Ruger 357 mag revolvers ... A Security Six 4 inch barrel ... LCR357 & a SP101
I own 29 & 20
The Glocks get carried on the woods
Underwood 200gr XTP
I have two Ruger Revolvers,aA Ruger Redhawk in .44 mag, and a Super Redhawk in 10mm. I would rather have either revolver in the woods over any Glock ever made. But thst's a personal choice. Glocks just don't feel right in my rather small short fat fingered hand. But that is probably the ONLY reason. Not because of dependability issues with either. And not for 15 rounds vs. six rounds either. I always figured if you need more than six rounds to do the job, you should be running....not pulling a trigger.