I was going to post this from where I had left off here - http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/damn/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/damn/) But it is really a topic that I felt should start fresh.
From the other thread it was pointed out how the throat in my brand new Storm Lake Barrel (6.02" for a G20, never been used yet) was off center. I got better pics now showing it more clearly as pictured below.
One thing I'm wondering is if other's aftermarket barrels by any manufacturer show similar or different inconsistencies from how they should be. I'm also wondering if these types of issues are causing some folks to see high pressure signs where other's don't with the same model barrel(s), and if one doesn't know why a particular aftermarket barrel they own is showing unexpected pressure signs maybe a peek down the barrel would shed some light (although an extra tight throat or bore wouldn't be noticeable to the naked eye if that were the case).
If it matters to anyone, or for direct comparison to anyone elses aftermarket barrel, the pics below are generally targeting where the throat meets the lands. My barrel has 6 lands. The first pic is of the land that starts just right of the barrel hood, with the continuing pictures showing the lands in order clockwise around the bore.
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000377-crop_zps1a6e8682.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000378-crop_zps844aa283.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000379-crop_zpsf5cb9ccc.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000380-crop_zpsf81932b3.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000381-crop_zps438144fe.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000382-crop_zps48657d7e.jpg)
A couple additional picks of the same Storm Lake barrel looking through it end to end;
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000316-crop_zps4d9b7ddc.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000317-crop_zpsdcceadbd.jpg)
Not really for direct comparison, but for what it's worth, pics of my stock G20 barrel posted in the same fashion;
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/PG1000301-crop_zpse82af571.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/PH1000302-crop_zpsa46ebe7d.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/PI1000303-crop_zps656cc437.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/PJ1000304-crop_zps65caa8fa.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/PK1000305-crop_zps2b794129.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/PL1000306-crop_zps7e4e9c51.jpg)
A couple additional picks of the same stock G20 barrel looking through it end to end;
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000309-crop_zps513544ff.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000308-crop_zps5220f78c.jpg)
As mentioned earlier above, I haven't put a single round through this barrel yet. What I do know is that all factory ammo I have, along with a number of my own handloads, drop into it cleanly with no resistance whatsoever. Though of course it doesn't have the built in slop of my stock G20 barrel chamber. At some point I'll find out how it actually shoots.
I'm curious to know how any of your aftermarket barrels may be machined wrongly. I suspect most people never look to know. Besides that, any thoughts/questions/comments are welcome and encouraged.
That has to be the absolutely worst example of machine work I've ever seen in a modern barrel, of any brand. I don't have a SL barrel, so I can't compare. My aftermarket barrels are true, and have a mirror finish bore, new and old. If it were mine, I'd not put any lead down that nasty, and send it back. Their reputation is not represented by what I see in your pics. How this got by QC is just crazy. That barrel is ugly, and will never clean up. Many shooters may not look that close at their barrels, placing all their trust in the brand they bought. I've always inspected mine very closely, and have returned only one rifle barrel for tooling marks in the chamber. Judging by the looks of the work in your barrel, I'd bet there are a lot more at least that bad. The tooling in the grooves alone is enough to reject it. That is a ballistic investigator's dream. Sorry to ramble on, but it is what it is, and it is just wrong in many ways.
Quote from: DM1906 on January 21 2013 10:39:58 PM MSTJudging by the looks of the work in your barrel, I'd bet there are a lot more at least that bad.
I'ld encourage others to closely inspect their own barrels by any aftermarket manufacturer (Storm Lake or otherwise) and post here what they negatively might find. I wouldn't have even thought to inspect mine to the extent I now have except for
ii open bringing up his issue where he can't get most factory 10mm loads to fully seat in the chamber of his Storm Lake barrel in this thread - http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/damn/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/reloading-10mm-ammo/damn/)
QuoteThe tooling in the grooves alone is enough to reject it.
Storm Lake broach cuts the grooves, where as KKM button rifles theirs,... Any further thoughts, keeping in mind the pics I posted are magnified, thereby grossly magnifying the tooling marks in the grooves?
QuoteSorry to ramble on, but it is what it is, and it is just wrong in many ways.
Not at all. Glad you chimed in.
Maybe it's good I haven't fired any ammo through this new barrel yet, and should seriously consider sending it back to be fixed or replaced. Not sure yet. What I really LIKE about it is the EXCELLENT chamber support which is the main reason I wanted the Storm Lake barrel in the first place. Uuuuuugh. :-\
I agree it is ugly and not an example of great workmanship.
And I really doubt it is going to shoot very well. That throat is likely to get the bullet slightly off center in the rifling, which will not be conducive to great accuracy.
But I would shoot it first.
While I agree that the barrel shows more machine marks than expected, it isn't entirely fair comparing it to a hammer rifled glock barrel right below.
Redline - first off, your pictures are excellent, much better quality than mine. Nice work.
I illustrated one of your pictures, to point out the problems I see with that barrel. Of course, my comments are in comparison to a perfect barrel; you could expect some of these issues in most barrels.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/P1000379-crop_zpsf5cb9ccc.jpg)
Here are some pictures of my Lone Wolf G20L 6.6" threaded barrel. This one started out too tight, so it got lapped and polished, and shoots really well now. You can see that the leading edge of the lands is slightly rounded from fire lapping though; this is why you don't want to lap a barrel any more than you have to. You can see where the bore in my barrel had some machining marks, that have been partly smoothed by lapping, and subsequent firing (a lot of rounds, mostly cast). This throat is very slightly offset, but not enough to be an issue, and is what I considered acceptable for a $100 barrel. You would not be able to clean up the throat in that SL barrel to look like this, it's too far out of alignment.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/20Lthroata.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/20Lthroatd.jpg)
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/20Lthroatc.jpg)
Good pics Yondering.
Thanks Yondering for pointing out everything really specifically. After further thought this morning I'm thinking I want something done to correct the the issue. And like you said; You would not be able to clean up the throat in that SL barrel to look like this, it's too far out of alignment. That said, I tend to agree and figure they would have to send me a new properly machined replacement.
I'm going to send them an email with pics and see how they react. I'll post their reply in this thread. In Storm Lake terminology my barrel is refered to as Defective (out of specification). Their written policy for Defective items is; Buyer must notify StormLake of a defective product within 7 days of receipt of product. The barrel has been in my possession since UPS delivered it 8-29-12 at 3:18pm. I'll be very curious to see how they react to that alone toward any remedy whatsoever.
In this case as it is, I'm kind of glad I haven't fired a single round through the barrel yet. Not that I know if it would really matter or not.
Hopefully they stand behind their work and replace your barrel. Regardless of their company policy, you owning the barrel since August didn't change the quality of that barrel; they should make it right.
I wonder if they are chambering their barrels in a lathe, with the barrel indexed off the outside rather than the bore? That would explain the misalignment, and would indicate the bore isn't completely centered in the barrel (this is fairly common).
I hope so too. Just sent a thorough email with the pictures off to them (cordial and polite) minutes ago. I'll keep the thread posted on what happens as I find out.
Got an email from Storm Lake today saying; "If you would like I can send you an RMA and have the barrel returned to us to be evaluated and repaired or replaced if necessary."
So I agreed and we'll see what happens.
Redline what yondering pointed out was exactly what I was mentioning in the other thread before I even saw the pictures.
Great details Yondering in you explaination! Great job! 8)
The markings on the brass that ii open posted clearly showed that he experienced the same in my opinion. [Reply #6 on: January 15, 2013, 09:09:09 PM]
The pictures of your barrel you posted in the other post I commented on this refreing to severl views [Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 07:53:16 PM]
Your pictures have been a clear example of poor machine work, sorry it was yours. Hopefully StormLake will fix this situation to your satisfaction. Good luck!
BTW, I just had a closer look into my StormLake 10mm & 40S&W barrels for my G-29, they are very pristen compared to Redline and ii opens examples. However these were made Sep 2007, tooling is great but I don't think my camera will capture that... :'(
Quote from: The_Shadow on January 23 2013 07:46:09 PM MSTGood luck!
Thanks The_Shadow. Also, I realize you did point out the shortcomings in the other thread, which I understand much better now and have even better pictures now that spell it out really clearly. Hopefully Storm Lake sends me the RMA today (24th) so I can get it sent out to them.
Well, they did send it today.
The email read; Please follow the instructions below in order to process your return for problem resolution.
1) Please complete a return form and describe the issue. Be sure to clearly write your return address, telephone, and email address on the return form. You can download a pdf return form at www.storm-lake.com/support by selecting the Returns & Exchanges button.
2) Please include a copy of your purchase receipt from an authorized StormLake dealer.
3) Please ensure that the product is properly packaged and insulated to ensure that the product is not damaged in transit. Improperly packaged products that are damaged in transit are not covered under the product warranty and will be returned to sender.
4) Your return authorization number is XXXX. Please write this number on the outside of the package.
So I got the barrel and info together, packaged it up and sent it out. Sounds like they'll receive it Monday 1-28-13. So far so good. Luckily I hadn't fired any ammo through the barrel yet, as at that point they consider it a used barrel and would then not take any responsibility for the barrel being defective. I'm very happy they have chosen leniency with me in respect to me owning the barrel for a time well beyond their stated warranty period.
Redline, is there consumer protection rights that would normally apply here over and above the warrenty period ? I would have thought that a defective (Manufacturing fault) product would be covered under the equiliviant trade practices act and no amount of shooting would make the barrell look like yours.
Anyway good pick up and camera work...I am off to check my barrel...
Quote from: wifecallsmegrumpy on January 24 2013 09:54:32 PM MST
Redline, is there consumer protection rights that would normally apply here over and above the warrenty period ? I would have thought that a defective (Manufacturing fault) product would be covered under the equiliviant trade practices act and no amount of shooting would make the barrell look like yours.
Anyway good pick up and camera work...I am off to check my barrel...
About consumer protection rights, I don't know. Not familiar enough with the law in that area. You very well might have a valid point. The only thing I'm thinking sometimes gets a bit hairy with stuff like that is that sometimes it costs more to fight for one's rights than the issue is worth in the first place. Still, I don't know.
You mentioned about checking your barrel. I just wonder how many people have a defective barrel and don't know it. I very well wouldn't have ever known if I just didn't happen to give it a close look one day all because of another bringing up an issue with their own barrel right here on this very forum. Maybe the issues with mine and ii open's are rare. Maybe they're more common than anyone would guess. I don't know and probably never will. I sure do wonder though.
All in all though I'm very happy that Storm Lake is standing behind the lack of quality in the machining of my barrel, at least so far. I'll let everyone know how they respond back to me after actually inspecting my barrel on their own, which I expect will be next week sometime.
Nice photos. The Storm Lake barrel is awful, that's for sure. When I bought my first M&P I was used to peering down the bore of my Sig P220 and seeing glass-smooth surfaces--when I first ran a swab through the M&P then looked at it, I was surprised at just what crap it was. Shoots fine, but my goodness--what lack of care and finishing. In the case of your Storm Lake though, I'd think that even if the general machining was garbage, they'd still manage to polish the burrs off and slather some lipstick on that pig.
I have my first aftermarket barrel coming in the mail soon--I'll be sure to attempt some photos, though I doubt seriously I'll be able to get anywhere near as nice an image as you did.
Well, just to contribute what I can, my barrel just arrived today. Now, I know some folks have had trouble with these, but I'm impressed and that usually takes quite a bit to do. Here we go.
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/Barrel01b_zps9155b990.jpg)
I asked for a little longer barrel for the 29SF but with no ports, and the good folks at LWD accomodated. Exterior machining and finish is excellent, and in fact I'd say exceptional. This is by far the nicest looking barrel I've ever had, even putting the Sig P220 factory barrel to shame. Can't say I'm enthusiastic about the cartoon--but I can live with it.
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/Barrel09_zpsc96e0382.jpg)
Now, I've read one person claiming that the chambers have been 'short' on some LW barrels, but I see nothing wrong here. The ramp is polished at least as well as any other stock barrel I've seen, and I can't imagine it would benefit from any further polishing. Support is what I'd expect from any barrel, factory issue or aftermarket. I'm not sure if it's KKM or LW where claims are the chambers are 'tight', but a quick check with a couple different factory rounds indicates to me it's got the wee bit of play you'd expect, as well. Not much, but a few 1000ths.
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/Barrel13_zpsfb839675.jpg)
Now we get down to bidnith. From this view, it looks like we got ourselves a barrel with a fairly long runway, which is nice for those of us who handload and may want to seat just a little long to get that last tenth of a grain in the case. I believe this is the longest leade I've ever seen on an autopistol barrel, I dunno.
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/Barrel12_zps6d9c605b.jpg)
That's not the best photos, but a little closer anyway. Here's one that's a bit better I think:
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/Barrel10a_zps1e51c649.jpg)
...and then just some general shots for a look at the finish.
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/Barrel02_zps9f0272df.jpg)
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/Barrel05_zps8b6aceb8.jpg)
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/Barrel03_zps4512e738.jpg)
...and finally, the business end:
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/Barrel14_zpsb9133fee.jpg)
For those like me who've never seen a G29 barrel before, there was surprise at the thickness. This is the heaviest barrel I've seen on an auto pistol, by a wide margin. I'm pleased there's a bit o' heft there--I didn't order a G29 because I wanted a lightweight 10mm. :) This can't hurt at all.
Anyway, overall I'm extremely pleased and rather impressed. The proof is in the shooting, of course--but unfortunately that could be weeks. For now, I hope the pics were instructive.
Quote from: Bongo Boy on February 05 2013 12:55:45 AM MST
Well, just to contribute what I can, my barrel just arrived today.
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/Barrel10a_zps1e51c649.jpg)
Thanks for sharing! Is it just me, or based on the pic I quoted above, is the throat reamed to a slightly larger diameter than the bore after it? If so, is this common and normal, assuming it's uniform all the way around the circumference?
Redline, yes it's normal, and desirable, to have a throat that is slightly larger than the bore, and/or tapered a little bit. I like a relatively long tapered throat in my pistols; in 10mm I like to see .402-.403+" right at the end of the chamber, tapering down to .400-.401" within 1/8" or so. Most barrels are made with a straight (non-tapered) throat, in that case for the 10mm I like to see about .4015-.402" in the throat, transitioning to a .400" bore. The picture above is probably a straight throat, but it's pretty hard to tell without actually measuring.
Thanks Yondering. 8)
Thanks also to Bongo Boy for sharing the pictures... :D
Quote from: REDLINE on January 24 2013 05:19:01 PM MST
Well, they did send it today.
The email read; Please follow the instructions below in order to process your return for problem resolution.
1) Please complete a return form and describe the issue. Be sure to clearly write your return address, telephone, and email address on the return form. You can download a pdf return form at www.storm-lake.com/support by selecting the Returns & Exchanges button.
2) Please include a copy of your purchase receipt from an authorized StormLake dealer.
3) Please ensure that the product is properly packaged and insulated to ensure that the product is not damaged in transit. Improperly packaged products that are damaged in transit are not covered under the product warranty and will be returned to sender.
4) Your return authorization number is XXXX. Please write this number on the outside of the package.
So I got the barrel and info together, packaged it up and sent it out. Sounds like they'll receive it Monday 1-28-13. So far so good. Luckily I hadn't fired any ammo through the barrel yet, as at that point they consider it a used barrel and would then not take any responsibility for the barrel being defective. I'm very happy they have chosen leniency with me in respect to me owning the barrel for a time well beyond their stated warranty period.
It's 2-11-13. I hadn't heard anything from StormLake yet since before sending the barrel off to them, so I sent them an email asking for a general heads up.
They replied;
"Yes we did receive the barrel back. Our service department is a little back logged but it has been scheduled into the que. We are hoping to have this evaluated and completed within 1-2 weeks."So we'll see where things stand in a couple weeks from now.
Quote from: REDLINE on February 08 2013 05:10:33 PM MSTIs it just me, or based on the pic I quoted above, is the throat reamed to a slightly larger diameter than the bore after it? If so, is this common and normal, assuming it's uniform all the way around the circumference?
I see what you're referring to, but I think that's just a bit of mark left from the tool used to taper the lands. I believe it's too small to be measureable (by me anyway), and too small to be intentional. If you were to grind a tool with a non-cutting shoulder on it to taper the lands, it would ride on the chamber and possibly the bore just a bit as it hit the lands, and I'd expect it would leave a bit of a mark. These photos tend to really amplify things, and I doubt it's anywhere close to even 0.0005" that you're seeing.
It does indicate an opportunity for a fella to go in and polish that taper on each land, though--that would be fun. I think I have just the tool to do that--I'll give it a shot and report back. :)
Hopefully, things will go well with Storm Lake for you. Lately things have been nuts, and I've noticed it can be tough to get through by any means to some retailers. I placed an $850 order a few nights back, got a confirmation after submitting the order, and now can't find it at all, and can't get through via phone to even see if the order actually got accepted. Very frustrating--good to see you got a response at least.
I get your drift. I have yet to hear from them regarding what they think, and will or won't do, yet. It will be interesting find out their thoughts/actions when they get around to it. I'll be posting whatever comes to pass as I find out more.
StormLake Inc. sent me an email this morning saying they shipped a package out to me via USPS Priority Mail and estimates the package to be delivered in 1-3 days.
The interesting part is they did not say how they handled my warranty claim, and did not say what they are sending back to me. I have no doubt they are sending a barrel back to me, but don't know if it's the one I had or a new one or what. Anyway, guess I'll know in 1-3 days.
As soon as I have time after getting whatever barrel they're sending me I'll get and post pics to compare to the old pics. I sure hope it's done right this time.
That is a bit like my experience with an online retailer and my own private gun club: I make requests via email to both of them and get no response back at all. They both did what I asked, but there's no 'we received your request' or 'it has been handled' acknowledgement of any kind. I guess you were at least told something's in the mail.
StormLake is funny that way. I've noticed in my experience that if you throw a question their way, they generally respond quickly with an answer, though in as few words possible. But like you (Bongo Boy) said, just like the online retailer and your gun club, if we don't take the first step toward any form of conversation we will not here a single peep. No question the "job" will get done, we won't be cheated, and at the end of the day they seem to play fair, BUT not one single peep.
You know what's really funny, technically StormLake didn't send me that email. Stamps.com did.
Now I'm just super anxious to get a look at what should show up at my door in a day or two. Especially because I was somewhat miffed they sent me what they originally did (the original factory ordered barrel) at all, with the barrel throat looking like it did, at the price they charge, and labeled by them to be match grade. But hey, they didn't question my sending it back to them and have supposedly sent me out something lacking the same flaw(s), so so far I'm not holding any grudges. Shortly we'll find out if I'll be throwing kudos their way or not.
Waiting with bated breath. Hope they do right by you.
Finally got the replacement barrel today. Definitely an improvement. What do you guys think, either in comparison to the 1st barrel I had, or on its own?
The pics below are generally targeting where the throat meets the lands. My barrel has 6 lands. The first pic is of the land that starts just right of the barrel hood, with the continuing pictures showing the lands in order clockwise around the bore for both the original and replacement barrels as listed below;
1st, the pics of the barrel I returned to StormLake:
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000377-crop_zps1a6e8682.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000378-crop_zps844aa283.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000379-crop_zpsf5cb9ccc.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000380-crop_zpsf81932b3.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000381-crop_zps438144fe.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/NewSLB602andGlockRifling1-21-13/P1000382-crop_zps48657d7e.jpg)
2nd, the pics of the replacement barrel I recieved from StormLake today (4-12-13):
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/REPLACEMENT%20SLB602%20Throat/P1000756-crop_zpsd45346be.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/REPLACEMENT%20SLB602%20Throat/P1000757-crop_zps4af3cca9.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/REPLACEMENT%20SLB602%20Throat/P1000758-crop_zpsa103fa05.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/REPLACEMENT%20SLB602%20Throat/P1000759-crop_zpsde7f3a2c.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/REPLACEMENT%20SLB602%20Throat/P1000760-crop_zpse65a326f.jpg)
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/REDLINE10mm/REPLACEMENT%20SLB602%20Throat/P1000761-crop_zps0eba3b65.jpg)
The free bore looks more concentric but a little rough... that should smooth out with some bullets down the tube! :)
It's an improvement. It really makes a fella want to build a polishing arbor or go in there with a fine sanding drum or even a riffler and at least take that shoulder off the aft ends of the lands. It would be easy enough to do and take about 20 minutes to get that portion of the lands where they feather out to the freebore much smoother. I personally would have to use the camera to check my work, though, since even with an OptiVisor it would be tough to get enough light in the right place to see what I was doing 'real time'. It would be done pretty much by feel, a little wee bit at a time, probably with something like this:
(http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x150/Bongo_Boy/riffler_zpsb09d2fd5.jpg) (http://s182.photobucket.com/user/Bongo_Boy/media/riffler_zpsb09d2fd5.jpg.html)
Anyway, I'm sure it's nothing a few 100 rounds of FMJ won't straighten out, and the concentricity looks WAY better than what you had.
The finish reminds me of what we would have when milling some chrome moly steels--I think it was 4140--back in the Ancient Times. Very 'stringy' looking--almost like a gauling of the material. I'm no expert but my first guess would be the tooling isn't getting sharpened frequently enough, the coolant isn't doing its job or is inadequate to the task of lubricating the cutter. Most stainless steels are brutal on tooling, and even carbide doesn't escape severe punishment.
Quote from: Bongo Boy on April 13 2013 12:08:14 AM MDTIt really makes a fella want to build a polishing arbor or go in there with a fine sanding drum or even a riffler and at least take that shoulder off the aft ends of the lands.
100% agree!
It bugs me that the new replacement barrel throat looks to have been cut with duller tooling than the barrel I had sent back to them. So now I have a barrel that has a much better throat, but rougher tooling marks.
I'm sure it's probably not a big deal. Like The_Shadow and Bongo Boy said, a few bullets down the tube should smooth things out some. Hopefully that's true. I don't know to what extent some bullets down the tube will smooth things out being that 416R SS is awfully hard compared to the copper used to make bullet jackets.
Yeah, you've got a great point there re: relative hardness of the materials. It would be cool if you were able to get nearly-identical photos (great photos, BTW) after say 1,000 and 5,000 rds down the tube. I have no idea what the impact would be.
I hope to at some point. For now though and into the intermediate future I don't expect to do much shooting. I'm at a point where I'm more into developing loads through handloading, and at this time it's proving difficult to impossible to get the load components I need to move forward. Other than that, it is something I want to see for myself when the time comes, and will of course post pics at that time.
barrels that look perfect sometimes shoot terrible. And sometimes barrels that look terrible shoot fine.
Like the others said, that looks pretty rough, and the sharp lip on those lands is going to be bad for cast bullets (I'm assuming that shooting cast is part of the reason for buying the barrel?). That is pretty crude, especially as a replacement for what you sent in.
Are you sure it's a new barrel, or did they just open the throat more concentrically on your old barrel? If so, the throat may be a bit large; you'll want to slug that and find out.
If it was my barrel, I'd be doing a bit of firelapping to smooth it out, unless the throat is already oversize, in which case I'd be sending it back to SL again.
Thanks for the pics; don't think I'll be buying any Storm Lake barrels! "Match Grade!" ??? :o
Quote from: Yondering on April 15 2013 12:11:38 PM MDT(I'm assuming that shooting cast is part of the reason for buying the barrel?).
No. I don't really ever intend to shoot cast lead. I wanted the addtional velocity from 6.02" as opposed to 4.6". And I could have went with the Glock accessory 6.02" barrel but didn't because I also wanted the additional chamber support of the Storm Lake version, which is excellent.
QuoteAre you sure it's a new barrel, or did they just open the throat more concentrically on your old barrel?
I'm positive it's a new barrel.
You are right, that going by my pics, the machining does look very rough. In reality though, looking just with the naked eye, it looks relatively smoothly finished (I'm not saying mirror finish...).
I still say shoot it before you make a judgement. Easy, cheap way to find out if the barrel performs.
Quote from: REDLINE on April 15 2013 06:20:19 PM MDT
You are right, that going by my pics, the machining does look very rough. In reality though, looking just with the naked eye, it looks relatively smoothly finished (I'm not saying mirror finish...).
That's good then. Shoot it, see how it does, and maybe those sharp edges can be lapped out, or smoothed out with the methods others suggested here.
Quote from: sqlbullet on April 15 2013 08:15:21 PM MDTI still say shoot it before you make a judgement. Easy, cheap way to find out if the barrel performs.
Please forgive my ignorance, what judgement are we talking about?
It is possible to take an FMJ type bullet, seated very long on a dummy cartridge and use some valve grinding compound (very fine grit) the compound needs to be on the tapered shoulder right at the max diameter start and hand lap the throat area where the land start. Take an old casing drill out the primer pocket to accept a small bolt (the pocket could be tapped & threaded but not needed) then with a nut and washer locked in place to use as a lever, shank or handle, that would allow you to twist and turn the extended bullet against the area to smooth out the roughness.
However, What you have in the bore is not that obtrusive, in that shooting some bullets would do the same over time! The only thing I think is you may see some fouling in the affected area but that will probably add to the smoothing, as it is dragged over those areas.
If it be me I just shoot and not worry myself over that issue... 8)
Ultimately the quality of a barrel, IMHO, is how well it puts bullets where you wanted them to go. I don't really care what it looks like as long as it performs as I need it to.
That is the ultimate judgement of barrel quality.
That is the judgement to which I refer.
We are seeing lots of suggestions on how to change how this barrel looks on the inside. I would shoot it first and see if I want the barrel to be changed.
Quote from: The_Shadow on April 16 2013 07:50:25 AM MDTIf it be me I just shoot and not worry myself over that issue... 8)
Me too.
Quote from: sqlbullet on April 16 2013 07:52:56 AM MDTWe are seeing lots of suggestions on how to change how this barrel looks on the inside. I would shoot it first and see if I want the barrel to be changed.
Okay. We're on the same page. I agree.
I got a storm lake a few weeks ago. The barrel is way out of spec. But I did not find that out till I shot it. Contacted them. They refuse to do anything. Even though the barrel is way out of spec. I had to sic my laywer on them. Still waiting to hear back. Looks like I might be forced to file in court.
I will never own a storm lake again. And that sucks cause they do have good chamber support.
What issues you have for stating it is out of spec?
Bore not aligned? Out of round? Rifling damaged?
Barrel lug machined wrong angles?
Other?
Quote from: ctious on May 16 2013 09:38:15 PM MDTI got a storm lake a few weeks ago. The barrel is way out of spec. But I did not find that out till I shot it. Contacted them. They refuse to do anything. Even though the barrel is way out of spec. I had to sic my laywer on them. Still waiting to hear back. Looks like I might be forced to file in court.
I will never own a storm lake again. And that sucks cause they do have good chamber support.
I hear ya. I was lucky I hadn't shot any ammo through my first one being that Storm Lake says it voids their warranty. I was even luckier that they replaced mine being that it was outside of their warrany period when I contacted them about it. But they still replaced it without question. No question they are serious sticklers though if any ammo has been run through it at all.
They do kind of put us between a rock and a hard place. Their chamber support is as good as it gets for Glock 10mm platforms, BUT, they have a super strict and tight warranty policy. I am very happy I have the one I do now, but from this time forward KKM will probably be getting my business for any future aftermarket barrel needs. Bar-Sto is fine but I'm not willing to pay the price, and Lone Wolf has hogged out the chamber mouth on their newest barrels to the extent I have zero interest in them.
Quote from: ctious on May 16 2013 09:38:15 PM MDTI got a storm lake a few weeks ago. The barrel is way out of spec.
I know The_Shadow already asked, but I'm wondering how it's out of spec too?
Quote from: ctious on May 16 2013 09:38:15 PM MDTI got a storm lake a few weeks ago. The barrel is way out of spec.
What specific 'spec' does the barrel not meet? And after shooting it, what led you to check the barrel against those specs in the first place?
[I'm about 99% confident this question is pissing in the wind, but I thought I'd ask anyway.]