Anyone here done it?
I have been researching and it appears doable. I am gonna give it a whirl with my Nagants.
Steps will include hydraulic depriming, removing the anvil from the primer pocket, drilling a center flash hole, swaging in a copper coller so the primer pocket is the correct size for a large rifle primer, full-length sizing and then normal loading from there.
I plan to load them with a Lee 200 grain cast bullet over WC872 surplus powder. Should deliver 1800-2000 fps at about 30,000 psi chamber pressure.
If anyone has any info, besides rumors of dire results, I am interested.
I have done it with the Wolf steel cases in 45 Auto, just to try it. No issues there, although I wasn't dealing with Berdan primers, and only loaded them once.
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 15 2013 10:06:28 AM MST
Anyone here done it?
I have been researching and it appears doable. I am gonna give it a whirl with my Nagants.
Steps will include hydraulic depriming, removing the anvil from the primer pocket, drilling a center flash hole, swaging in a copper coller so the primer pocket is the correct size for a large rifle primer, full-length sizing and then normal loading from there.
I plan to load them with a Lee 200 grain cast bullet over WC872 surplus powder. Should deliver 1800-2000 fps at about 30,000 psi chamber pressure.
If anyone has any info, besides rumors of dire results, I am interested.
Nagant....NAGANT...
NAGANT????? You aren't talking about a Nagant Revolver with a 200 grain bullet.......that's for sure.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v196/Gandog56/mosaka-albums-mosin-pix-picture4325-ermy-nagant-4.jpg)
It's a MOSIN NAGANT. Pushups forever...begin!
By the way, your bottleneck dies are steel, so steel on steel cannot be good for your dies. Ran across some steel cased, boxer primed .223 cases once, the sizer die didn't work too hot on them. Brass is softer and doesn't stretch back like steel seems to. And most steel cases out there are Berdan Primed, not boxer. Have fun removing Berdan primers. I only know one US source for Berdan primers, they are NOT interchangeable, and Berdan primed stuff will break a normal decappiing pin. So if you are bound and determined to do it, shine flashlight down the case, two flash holes to either side instead of one central flashhole means Berdan, which I just toss as not worth the effort..
Funny how you quoted my post, berated me over the colloquial use of Nagant (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=nagant&l=1) to refer to a Mosin Nagant, and further critiqued my assumed amateur abilities with a diatribe about berdan vs boxer primed....
Yet failed to read and comprehend my post:
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 15 2013 10:06:28 AM MST
Steps will include hydraulic depriming, removing the anvil from the primer pocket, drilling a center flash hole, swaging in a copper coller so the primer pocket is the correct size for a large rifle primer, full-length sizing and then normal loading from there.
:P
Yes, I know there is a difference between boxer and berdan primed ammo, and that my surplus
Mosin Nagant 7.62X54R ammo will be berdan primed and will break decapping pins. I knew this before I ever reloaded my first case low those many years past.
And I have already deprimed berdan brass using the hydraulic method with my Lyman M die. Easy as pie, by the way. I have also swaged lots of different items just to see the process, but swaging a copper collar into a over-sized berdan pocket so it will fit a boxer large rifle primer will be a new experience.
I do appreciate your concern for my decapping pins, but the whole point of the exercise is to find out how enjoyable it is to convert berdan primed brass to boxer primed, not to search out boxer primed steel case 7.62X54R.
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 15 2013 10:06:28 AM MSTAnyone here done it?
I have been researching and it appears doable.
IMO, doable but not worth it. I can though respect anyone wanting to give it an honest try. You never know when some tinkering around ends up forming an idea for an invention that might be well recieved by a larger public. Good Luck with your venture sqlbullet! 8)
The primary driving factor is the desire to shoot cast bullets in my mosin nagants, and the expense of boxer-primed brass cases for 7.62X54R. Even the cheap stuff is $0.75 a pop for brass.
If I can find a way to build up a couple thousand steel cases that I can reload even 3 or 4 times, it will be worth it.
I have a bunch of used brass Nagant cases, and make more all the time. All Berdan primed, of course, but a lot better to "mess" with than steel cases. I have no intention of reusing them. Been there, done that, a couple decades ago. They aren't worth messing with (Berdan conversion), so I won't. I'll gather them up and make them available to you, if interested.
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 18 2013 02:50:10 PM MSTThe primary driving factor is the desire to shoot cast bullets in my mosin nagants, and the expense of boxer-primed brass cases for 7.62X54R. Even the cheap stuff is $0.75 a pop for brass.
If I can find a way to build up a couple thousand steel cases that I can reload even 3 or 4 times, it will be worth it.
It's certainly none of my concern, but my 2 cents is to go to one of the great cartridges that already exist without the hassle. Too me it finally comes down to
what's the point? But I get it, different folks different strokes. If it makes you happy stay with it!
Quote from: REDLINE on February 19 2013 01:03:18 AM MST
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 18 2013 02:50:10 PM MSTThe primary driving factor is the desire to shoot cast bullets in my mosin nagants, and the expense of boxer-primed brass cases for 7.62X54R. Even the cheap stuff is $0.75 a pop for brass.
If I can find a way to build up a couple thousand steel cases that I can reload even 3 or 4 times, it will be worth it.
It's certainly none of my concern, but my 2 cents is to go to one of the great cartridges that already exist without the hassle. Too me it finally comes down to what's the point? But I get it, different folks different strokes. If it makes you happy stay with it!
What's the point? Well....
A round that offers .30-06 ballistics, in a really cheap rifle, shooting really cheap ammo. I paid less than $100 for the rifle, and the last lot of ammo I bought was less than the going rate for .22 LR. A 1,000 meter rifle and 12K rounds of ammo for less than $500. Powerful accuracy. That's the point. Of course, you can't find that deal today, but it is what it is. Big-5 (a sporting goods store, in case you don't have them where you are) will have them again, someday, for $79.99. It was an absolute brute in original form (shoulder destroyed due to professional wrestling), one piece hardwood stock and steel butt plate, but they are an absolute pleasure to shoot with a sport stock and (thick) recoil pad. SQL says expensive, and it is by today's standard compared to what it was, but still 1/4 the cost of the nearest competitor (retail).
Like DM1906, I have several Mosin Nagants I picked up for about $75.00 each a year ago. Four in fact. And I have several thousand rounds of ammo, all steel cased Soviet surplus. About 1,000 rounds in stripper clips, and a 3-4 spam cans of paper pack.
So, I am not hurting for ammo, and don't have to immediately figure this out. It is more of a "time to piddle around" exercise than anything.
And, yes, I would be interested if you have brass, even if it is berdan primed. Once i convert it brass will last almost forever with my cast bullet loads. Especially light gallery loads using 110 grain bullets and some Unique. And they barely cost more than the primer.
A friend bought about a dozen spam cans (we share/trade ammo), and all the rounds were paper wrapped, loose. Nearly all of it is shot on my range, so getting the brass is just a matter of picking it up with the rest. The stripper clips are handy, but useless as soon as you install a center-mount scope. An offset scope would work with strippers, and you don't have to bend the bolt, although I prefer a bent bolt in any case. It is funny though, having a weapon with a scope worth 10X the rifle it's mounted to (I actually have a few rifles fitting this description).
The brass I have is actual "brass". Not the "bi-metal" cases (copper clad steel) that look like brass. It looks good and very consistent, so it should do very well for your lead plinkers. I don't normally clean them, but I'll run them through the tumbler. I'll give a holler when I get a bunch gathered up and ready.
Also, my friend has an "adapter" he uses with his Nagant. It allows the use of 7.62x25 in the rifle. This is the cheapest of the cheap ammo (cheaper to shoot than cheap .22LR). It shoots surprisingly well on paper, even out to 100+ yds, and has a report only slightly greater than .22LR, less than .22WMR or .38Spl (in a rifle).
No doubt, I fully understand where you guys are coming from. Rock on.
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 18 2013 09:57:23 AM MST
Funny how you quoted my post, berated me over the colloquial use of Nagant (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=nagant&l=1) to refer to a Mosin Nagant, and further critiqued my assumed amateur abilities with a diatribe about berdan vs boxer primed....
Yet failed to read and comprehend my post:
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 15 2013 10:06:28 AM MST
Steps will include hydraulic depriming, removing the anvil from the primer pocket, drilling a center flash hole, swaging in a copper coller so the primer pocket is the correct size for a large rifle primer, full-length sizing and then normal loading from there.
:P
Yes, I know there is a difference between boxer and berdan primed ammo, and that my surplus Mosin Nagant 7.62X54R ammo will be berdan primed and will break decapping pins. I knew this before I ever reloaded my first case low those many years past.
And I have already deprimed berdan brass using the hydraulic method with my Lyman M die. Easy as pie, by the way. I have also swaged lots of different items just to see the process, but swaging a copper collar into a over-sized berdan pocket so it will fit a boxer large rifle primer will be a new experience.
I do appreciate your concern for my decapping pins, but the whole point of the exercise is to find out how enjoyable it is to convert berdan primed brass to boxer primed, not to search out boxer primed steel case 7.62X54R.
No, I posted what I thought would yank your chain....just a little bit. Thought you would look at my pic and we could both chuckle a bit. Guess not, you being the "sensitive" type. Well in answer to the original post....
I tried to reload some type of boxer primed steel cased .223 once. It was tough and needed LOTS of case lube. And the steel tended to spring back a bit after I resized it, and they did not tightly grip the seated bullets well. Fortunately I did not try a WHOLE lot of them, and won't try it again. Now if that answers your post, fine. Sorry you did NOT take mine as originally intended, as funny. Not really a personal dig. And LOTS of Mosin Nagant owners HATE the use of term, Nagant, when they are talking about the rifles. I just have fun with it, instead.
Apologies all around. One of the challenges with forums is the inability to see nuance like you can in person. Sorry if I was overly defensive.
All my friends call them "Old Nags" ;D
Between myself and my two close shooting friends we have 10 of them.
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 18 2013 09:57:23 AM MST
Funny how you quoted my post, berated me over the colloquial use of Nagant (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=nagant&l=1) to refer to a Mosin Nagant, and further critiqued my assumed amateur abilities with a diatribe about berdan vs boxer primed....
Yet failed to read and comprehend my post:
Quote from: sqlbullet on February 15 2013 10:06:28 AM MST
Steps will include hydraulic depriming, removing the anvil from the primer pocket, drilling a center flash hole, swaging in a copper coller so the primer pocket is the correct size for a large rifle primer, full-length sizing and then normal loading from there.
:P
Yes, I know there is a difference between boxer and berdan primed ammo, and that my surplus Mosin Nagant 7.62X54R ammo will be berdan primed and will break decapping pins. I knew this before I ever reloaded my first case low those many years past.
And I have already deprimed berdan brass using the hydraulic method with my Lyman M die. Easy as pie, by the way. I have also swaged lots of different items just to see the process, but swaging a copper collar into a over-sized berdan pocket so it will fit a boxer large rifle primer will be a new experience.
I do appreciate your concern for my decapping pins, but the whole point of the exercise is to find out how enjoyable it is to convert berdan primed brass to boxer primed, not to search out boxer primed steel case 7.62X54R.
What? The pic of the "Sarge" is a joke, not a berating. I did explain I tried steel boxer cases once and it did not go well, and why it did not go well. The other comments were other people who may have NOT understood what we taking about. And removing the old Berdan primers hydraulically can be a mess. And swaging out the primer pockets seems to be a bad thing in a high pressure case, because I can't see where the places where the two holes were at as not being weak points for a possibly catastrophic blowout. You can get Tula pBerdan Primers now. Graf And Sons sells them in two large rifle sizes, 7.62X39 and 7.62X54R sizes. If you were absolutely bound and determined to do steel anyways, that is the way I would go, without altering the primer holes. And like I said, the cases are steel, and so are your dies, can't be good for one another.
All and all, just a little too much bother for me to go through, since I probably have way over 1000 brass cased boxer primed 7.62X54R and 7.62X39 cases each. Heck, I bought 600 virgin Lapua 7.62X54Rboxer primed cases I found online for $30/100 last year. And I have yet to go through all my OTHER boxer primed 7.62X54R to get to any of them yet.
Hope this was a bit more constructive and didn't hurt your feelings this time!
The thing about steel cases is they usually are coated with a lacquer and can possibly damage your expensive dies! :o
I'm not sure how paint is supposed to harm steel dies, since steel is harder. And the lacquer almost came off when I threw the cases in the tumbler. If corncob takes it off, what is lacquer going to do with the steel dies?
Of course the lacquer gets taken off, the steel cases start to rust right quick.
The lacquer can gum up the dies if the lube softens it or it rubs off.
Any damaged, rusted areas or burs may cause damage to the dies.
Another this is spring back after sizing, steel casings are vastly different than brass cases.
You can do what ever you want with yours but I'll pass on playing with the steel casings. 8)
The aluminum cases seem to crack easily if being re-worked, I tried to size an aluminum 10mm case to 9x25, No Go they crack and split. Annealing may help but I'm not interested in that procedure... :-\
Aluminum experiences memory fatigue that steel doesn't as well.
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 14 2013 09:02:15 PM MDT
The lacquer can gum up the dies if the lube softens it or it rubs off.
Any damaged, rusted areas or burs may cause damage to the dies.
Another this is spring back after sizing, steel casings are vastly different than brass cases.
You can do what ever you want with yours but I'll pass on playing with the steel casings. 8)
The aluminum cases seem to crack easily if being re-worked, I tried to size an aluminum 10mm case to 9x25, No Go they crack and split. Annealing may help but I'm not interested in that procedure... :-\
Well gumming up the works is easily fixed, since I spray them out with carb cleaner every once in a while to clean out the old case lube and gunk. Then we come back to the steel on the cases probably not being good to your steel dies. This I do agree with you on. I also pointed out in my post that steel cases were NOT resizing correctly, that the projectiles were only very loosely held by the neck tension. On the other hand, I have reloaded several Blazer aluminum cases with absolutely no problems with cracking....at least in the 9mm cases I was trying. They fed and shot just fine. Think I will continue to reload them. I haven't bought any store bought 10mm for years, so I've never even seen an aluminum 10mm case. I would sure give it a try, though, due to my success with the 9mm.
Steel, eh...I'll still pass.