I haven't posted here in quite awhile, too busy with work and other guns, calibers and projects. But after buying my third Kel-Tec 40 and realizing I don't trust it, I want to explore the 10mm carbines......and there are a bunch I never heard of. Reading threads here for the past few hours, I've realized that despite the prices, you don't always get what you pay for, hence a lot of apprehension on my part about buying something that doesn't have a million glowing reviews.
The Hi-Point 10mm Carbine gets a lot of good press, those that bought it seem very pleased, and I kinda like it.........but it's still a Hi-Point. Should I just get over my prejudice and try one? It's not just that it's fugly and weird looking, I don't like proprietary magazines that only hold ten rounds, I'd rather have something can take Glock mags, maybe even other magazines. I've been online for a couple days, looking at carbines from Theuron Defense, TNW Aero, CMMG, H&K and a few others, and I'm still having a hard time deciding on anything. Most of the choices are $1000-$1500, and I have no idea what's worth buying. Some have NO reviews, which could mean a couple things......either no one is buying them, or those that did haven't found anything to bitch about.
So who has a good experience with one of the guns aside from the Hi-Point? I've thought seriously about getting the H-P in 10mm, then trying a Theuron Defense 40S&W, because it can take the same magazines as my duty gun, which is a S&W MP-40.
I sold my Witness 10mm because I seldom shot it (tired of chasing brass into the next zip code) but I still like the 10mm, and I really enjoy pistol-caliber carbines. I have said (on other fora) for fifteen years that if someone offered a gas-operated 10mm carbine that used good magazines and had a decent trigger, they'd sell every one they could build. I'd rather not have to buy a blowback design, I already have a Mech-Tech Carbine in 460 Rowland, and I'm tired of having to load it down to avoid stretching the brass until it separates.....because it will.
Anyone have any experience with the Alex Pro Firearms (APF) carbine in ANY caliber? Right now that's where I'm looking. Also the CMMG Guard. Both seem overpriced.
And an aside to the handloaders......is Longshot still the powder of choice for longer barrels? I also have a lot of AA#9, and there's always 4227 (which I love in the 32-20 Marlin), among others. Your thoughts?
AA9 will get you more velocity using current published data than any other powder.
Longshot comes into its own with really long bullets in 10mm....190 CEB, 220 cast, etc.
I would be remiss if I didn't put in a pitch for the one I settled on.
A MechTech upper for a Glock 20. I picked up a used G20 Gen 4 for cheap and dedicated the lower to it.
It's actually classified as a pistol accessory, so it ships right to your home. More details on their site and forum.
I absolutely love it. It's my favorite gun to shoot, by far.
It has its minor drawbacks:
it is weight-forward, which makes it seem heavier than it is in hand;
there's no option for a full top rail and short bottom rail with no side rails;
there's no field strip, and complete disassembly has its quirks and cautions (this may be more significant depending on what you plan to use it for);
no option for a threaded barrel from the factory;
no last round hold open
These things are outweighed in my opinion by its strengths:
weighs about what your average AR weighs (mine's right about 9lbs with all of the accoutrements and a full 20 round mag in it);
excellent construction and top notch machining;
mags feed through the grip, so no wasted space and it shoots almost like a bullpup;
smooth long recoil thanks to the straight blowback mechanism, and it makes full power 10's feel almost tame;
100% reliable with all 10mm and .40 S&W I've shot through it;
as accurate as I'd hope any pistol round to be;
lots of customization options;
(mine) takes Glock mags, but is also available for 1911s and XDs
The customer service in my experience has been top notch, though I haven't had any issues that required sending it back.
(https://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr13/KeiichitheOtaku/image2_zpsonfsxfxy.jpeg)
Keiichi, it's funny you'd bring up the Mech-Tech, I've had one for eight or nine years! Mine is a 460 Rowland with a 1911 lower, and while I like it, I wish I had gone the same route you did, and gotten the 10mm/Glock setup.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/Pops%20Guns/IMG_4232.jpg) (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/papajohn428/media/Pops%20Guns/IMG_4232.jpg.html)
It's scary accurate with ammo it likes, handles 45ACP quite well, but it's still a blowback design, and will stretch brass until it separates if you runs your loads too warm. I like bigger bullets and wanted more than the 10mm/40 S&W back then, so I got this one, but the 10mm is (IMHO) a better cartridge for the Mech-Tech.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/Pops%20Guns/003_zpstadqziti.jpg) (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/papajohn428/media/Pops%20Guns/003_zpstadqziti.jpg.html)
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/Targets/IMG_0029.jpg) (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/papajohn428/media/Targets/IMG_0029.jpg.html)
Mine had to go back to the Mother Ship after the charging handle snapped off, it was apparently just a soft piece of steel, and they replaced it without any other issues. Maybe my loads were a little warm? Perhaps. I had a guy making me custom 140-grain JHP's, which I managed to get up to an average of 2364 fps with a healthy dose of Power Pistol. Most of my loads involved 230-grain JHP's, and most of them averaged between 1500-1600 fps and showed good accuracy, sometime REALLY good accuracy.
10-7 LEO, (Love the moniker!) Thanks for the info about the TNW, hopefully those with later versions will chime in here and relate their experiences with their 10mm's. I was a bit worried about how sturdy the gun is, your comments alleviated my concerns about them being made too thin and light.
Anyone else got a favorite 10mm Carbine? I've been hooked on the concept since I got my first PCC in the late 80's, a Marlin 357 carbine that I still have. It may be slow to reload, but it sure is fast to empty! It's the second from the top. And yes, I have others with levers.
(https://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/Pops%20Guns/NewmarlinFamilyPix006.jpg) (https://s96.photobucket.com/user/papajohn428/media/Pops%20Guns/NewmarlinFamilyPix006.jpg.html)
Always great to see how others conceived of their MechTech builds. Very cool.
Really neat lever collection there too.
Best of luck in your 10mm PCC search. I'm looking forward to hearing what you end up with.
I have three 10mm Carbines
1.) KRISS vector great 10mm the concept works, you can run this as fast as you can and stay on target. It is reliable and accurate. it's heavy but a good three-point sling takes care of that. I run an Ultradot on this and have shot steel targets out to 150 yards offhand with it. It's expensive. It's heavy and it's purpose built for a defensive gun.
2.) Contender G2 with a MGM 18" 10MM Barrel. Tac driver of a little rifle one hole groups at 50 yards. Light weight easy to carry and fast into action in dense brush. Shoots cast bullets like it was made for them. This little rifle also has an Ultra dot on it and is one of my favorite guns of all that I own. Light weight and handi.
3.) Hi-Point you get what you pay for. Sights suck, so I put a Ultra Dot on it. The darn thing beats the heck outta your cheek so I removed the rubber whisker puller on the stock that helped. It's reliable as all get out. Not very accurate at anything over 30-40 yards. My Mossberg Shockwave is more accurate. Now all that said you get what you pay for and I do have fun running the goofy thing. And it's good place to burn up misc. ammo that collects on my bench. ;D
So for me the best one of those I have tried is the G2 then if I add in the versitility of that platform it wins hands down. The only category it falls short is as defensive weapon then again make the first shot follow up may not be needed.......
I learned a lot from my $1600 dollar 10mm PCC mistake. It is documented in the RD10 post a few below this one. Essentially 10mm blowback rifles will be near impossible to get to run with all projectile loads due to needing a 2.5lb buffer/bolt combo for 155gr loads up to a 3.6lb bolt buffer combo for 220gr loads. My post has a spreadsheet with the documentation for this. There just isn't enough room in the buffer tube of a typical Glock Lower AR style PCC to install enough weight to safely delay the bolt till the chamber pressure levels drop.
The TNW rifle/pistol gets close with a bolt and buffer @ 2.8lbs (if I remember correctly) and feeds fairly well with their latest feed ramp. I never checked for case stretch when I had my TNW but I bet it is there with 200+gr loads. While this gun looks like it has an AR style upper in reality it is a custom piece which allows for a much larger bolt than the more common Glock lower based PCC's.
Any Glock lower style PCC is going to need a rifle length buffer tube (if you want to run heavy weight projectiles) and the heaviest buffer you can get your hands on. The downside is heavier buffers can affect the feeding of lighter loads. Regardless, if you limit your ammo to 155-165gr 10mm loads then 2.5lbs bolt/buffer weight is entirely possible with the buffers out there now.
I'd look at some sort of roller delay or gas driven 10mm PCC, skip the blowback versions if you want to run the full range of loads that the 10mm cartridge allows for.
I'd agree with Azrckcrawler re straight blowback vs delayed blowback or gas operated. Another member here, Pablo, and I both have RWMxtreme 10mm carbines. They are DI and use grease gun mags. The only real problem with them is the converted grease gun mags. I've gotten a little further than Pablo with solving that problem. If I did it again I would have ordered mine with a Glock mag lower. That seems to be the best solution to the feeding issue. The price for the grease gun mag version is $799 and I believe the Glock mag version is just a little more.
On the plus side, mine is stunningly accurate, came with a pretty decent trigger and nice furniture. It will run anything as long as it's not 10mms loaded to .40ish levels. Regardless of how hot I load my ammo, it drops the empties in a neat pile about 2-3' to my right.
This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for!
I've long said that Direct Impingement is the only way to go, but wasn't even sure if there were DI 10mm carbines out there, and I had never heard of the RMWXtreme guns. I can't justify paying upwards of $1000 for a blowback gun, it just seems silly when we all know the issues that come with them. As much as I like my Mech-Tech .460, it WILL stretch the brass, even with that massive bolt.
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/IMG_9234.jpg) (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/papajohn428/media/IMG_9234.jpg.html)
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/IMG_9260.jpg) (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/papajohn428/media/IMG_9260.jpg.html)
At this point my focus is on the RMW guns, a 10mm that takes Glock mags would be about as good as it gets. Many thanks to all who responded! 8)
You also might want to look up Macon Armory and give them a call. The owners name is Rudy and he will make you up a DI 10mm carbine, as well. He may be just a little more expensive, but I've never heard a bad thing about his work. Others might chime in.
What's your pulse on AR style carbines?
This one fits your requirements of gas operated and takes Glock mags.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181204/f6bf3ed00e461c142bae8e80e7818566.jpg)
Of course this one is SBR but could
be built as a carbine instead.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
"What's your pulse on AR style carbines?"
I've owned about a dozen AR's in various calibers and configurations, and I'm very comfortable with the platform. An AR chassis built to take Glock mags would suit me fine!
What can you tell me about what you have there? The Vltor name is vaguely familiar but I don't know anything about them.
I'm discovering that there are a LOT more PCC makers out there than I thought! :-X
Quote from: Papajohn on December 04 2018 02:09:49 PM MST
"What's your pulse on AR style carbines?"
I've owned about a dozen AR's in various calibers and configurations, and I'm very comfortable with the platform. An AR chassis built to take Glock mags would suit me fine!
What can you tell me about what you have there? The Vltor name is vaguely familiar but I don't know anything about them.
I'm discovering that there are a LOT more PCC makers out there than I thought! :-X
This one is a custom build. Lower is a QC10 Glock large frame lower. Only thing proprietary is the mag release and it comes already installed.
Upper was built/put together by Ron at RMW Extreme. He uses DI gas to build his uppers. I provided the VLTOR upper and the Noveske handguard. He machined the barrel and gas system as well as assembled it all. He provided the bolt as well. All other parts are run of the mill AR parts.
I will say that I had to play with different weight buffers since I shoot it suppressed. It currently runs a 9oz heavy buffer in it but doesn't run reliably unsuppressed. I suspect it would run great with a lighter buffer and regular gas system. My gas tube is only about 3" long.
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Quote from: Ramjet on December 01 2018 06:42:59 AM MST
I have three 10mm Carbines ....
2.) Contender G2 with a MGM 18" 10MM Barrel. Tac driver of a little rifle one hole groups at 50 yards. Light weight easy to carry and fast into action in dense brush. Shoots cast bullets like it was made for them. This little rifle also has an Ultra dot on it and is one of my favorite guns of all that I own. Light weight and handi.
So for me the best one of those I have tried is the G2 then if I add in the versitility of that platform it wins hands down. The only category it falls short is as defensive weapon then again make the first shot follow up may not be needed.......
Looking at the G2 Option..
I thought this whole process was going to take a year, between deciding what to buy/build, which accessories, and all that. Wrong again! I happened onto an auction a couple weeks ago, there were three hours left and I decided to go for it. It's an RMW build, a DI-10mm with an 8" barrel, and it's super sweet. Geisele trigger, slicked up action, this thing ROCKS. Every day a truck pulls up and brings me more goodies for it, 500 Starline brass, more mags, lots of small additions, including a Bushnell Trophy TRS-25 red dot, Troy BUIS, better pistolgrip, yada yada yada. I can't put it down, it's just begging to be shot!
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/Pops%20Guns/007_zpsjamcnzf4.jpg) (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/papajohn428/media/Pops%20Guns/007_zpsjamcnzf4.jpg.html)
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/Pops%20Guns/001_zpslcfhklzv.jpg) (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/papajohn428/media/Pops%20Guns/001_zpslcfhklzv.jpg.html)
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/Pops%20Guns/003_zpsa6zdg6qg.jpg) (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/papajohn428/media/Pops%20Guns/003_zpsa6zdg6qg.jpg.html)
(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l195/papajohn428/Pops%20Guns/012_zpsz7lvxqet.jpg) (http://s96.photobucket.com/user/papajohn428/media/Pops%20Guns/012_zpsz7lvxqet.jpg.html)
Range report to follow, if the temp ever gets out of single digits when I'm actually off work!
I have a new thureon defense in 10mm with 16.5" barrel. Got the basic model. Absolutely love it. Upgraded stock to doublestar ace skeletal stock. Added burris PEPR cantilever mount for a vortex strike eagle 1-8x power illuminated scope. 2" groups and shoots flat with underwood 155gr ammo at 100yds. Muzzle energy (1200 ft/lb) a hair better than 5.56! Most fun gun I ever had. Sellier & Bellot ammo for plinking is cheap as heck. Wish Pennsylvania would allow it for deer. Well worth the investment. My opinion. Also 30 seconds to field strip and super simple system which is what sold me. Also Hickok45 review of the 9mm was great. Get one.
Quote from: Papajohn on January 31 2019 08:55:26 PM MST
I thought this whole process was going to take a year, between deciding what to buy/build, which accessories, and all that. Wrong again! I happened onto an auction a couple weeks ago, there were three hours left and I decided to go for it. It's an RMW build, a DI-10mm with an 8" barrel, and it's super sweet.
So it runs with no issues?
Well.......NO. >:( Feeding has been good to horrid. Once a round chambers fully, all is well, but sometimes the round jams at a 45-degree angle, sometimes it almost chambers fully but needs a little help, and sometimes it runs just fine. I think I got ten rounds in sa row to feed and fire, most other attempts have been less than successful.
When I first got it it ran pretty well, but once I started using other (new) magazines it started getting pretty chokey. It ran well for about 50 rounds before it went south. Serious cleaning and lubing seemed to help a little but it's still nothing I would EVER trust my life to, unless I only needed a single-shot. Experimentation continues, with different ammo, mags that have been left loaded to soften the springs, that kind of stuff. Right now it's a range toy, hopefully someday it'll be something I can actually rely on.
Quote from: Papajohn on April 21 2019 08:31:50 PM MDT
Well.......NO. >:( Feeding has been good to horrid. Once a round chambers fully, all is well, but sometimes the round jams at a 45-degree angle, sometimes it almost chambers fully but needs a little help, and sometimes it runs just fine. I think I got ten rounds in sa row to feed and fire, most other attempts have been less than successful.
When I first got it it ran pretty well, but once I started using other (new) magazines it started getting pretty chokey. It ran well for about 50 rounds before it went south. Serious cleaning and lubing seemed to help a little but it's still nothing I would EVER trust my life to, unless I only needed a single-shot. Experimentation continues, with different ammo, mags that have been left loaded to soften the springs, that kind of stuff. Right now it's a range toy, hopefully someday it'll be something I can actually rely on.
Could be tight chamber syndrome.
Is that a thing? I've never heard of it, but I'm not on the computer much these days.
FWIW, I also recently picked up a TNW Aero Survival rifle in 45ACP, and it's the worst jam-o-matic I've ever seen. A pick-up tag is forthcoming, but right now it feeds about four rounds out of 50, the same 45-degree feed jam. Somedays I think my Marlin leverguns are the best rifles I'll ever own!
Quote from: Papajohn on April 22 2019 09:14:01 PM MDT
Is that a thing? I've never heard of it, but I'm not on the computer much these days.
FWIW, I also recently picked up a TNW Aero Survival rifle in 45ACP, and it's the worst jam-o-matic I've ever seen. A pick-up tag is forthcoming, but right now it feeds about four rounds out of 50, the same 45-degree feed jam. Somedays I think my Marlin leverguns are the best rifles I'll ever own!
Very much a thing. Glock is famous for easy feed, loose chamber. Tight chamber will catch nose, especially 10mm. Caused by undersized/worn cutter, improper measurement.
Here is the one I think would be an ideal 10mm carbine.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/11/01/10mm-40sw-ranger-point-precision-1040ss/ (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/11/01/10mm-40sw-ranger-point-precision-1040ss/)
Quote from: Ramjet on April 23 2019 06:47:16 AM MDT
Here is the one I think would be an ideal 10mm carbine.
https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/11/01/10mm-40sw-ranger-point-precision-1040ss/ (https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/11/01/10mm-40sw-ranger-point-precision-1040ss/)
Definitely had my attention until I read the price. Not that it is out of line for the amount of work they are doing, just too rich for my blood.
Very nice
Quote from: Papajohn on April 21 2019 08:31:50 PM MDT
Well.......NO. >:( Feeding has been good to horrid. Once a round chambers fully, all is well, but sometimes the round jams at a 45-degree angle, sometimes it almost chambers fully but needs a little help, and sometimes it runs just fine. I think I got ten rounds in sa row to feed and fire, most other attempts have been less than successful.
When I first got it it ran pretty well, but once I started using other (new) magazines it started getting pretty chokey. It ran well for about 50 rounds before it went south. Serious cleaning and lubing seemed to help a little but it's still nothing I would EVER trust my life to, unless I only needed a single-shot. Experimentation continues, with different ammo, mags that have been left loaded to soften the springs, that kind of stuff. Right now it's a range toy, hopefully someday it'll be something I can actually rely on.
I went through similar trials with my RMW/QC10 SBR.
You have to tune the buffer for it. Ron kept swearing I needed a light weight buffer. Turns out it needs a heavy buffer, at least when running suppressed. Try switching buffers progressively going heavier rather than lighter.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/7d792627deb65debab4eaa60013fae31.jpg)
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190423/815efd323a3f97a68736c2ae54270902.jpg)
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Mike, I've decided to take your advice and change out the buffer, a quick search of my parts box turned up 3 spare buffers and a variety of springs. The buffer in the 10mm AR weighs 1265 grains, the next one weighed 1220, the third weighed 1295 and the last one, though about .760" shorter than the others, weighs somewhere north of 1500 grains, more than my Chargemaster can handle.
Would you go with longer one at 1295, or use the shorter one with a lot more weight to it?
Here's the thureon 10mm. The more i shoot, the more i love it. Still no hiccups even with 30 rd sgm mags. S&B 180 gr 90% of time. Underwood 155gr jhp about 10% of time. Over 600 rds now. Changed stock to minimalist and grip to magpul. 1-8x vortex on tip. His little brother g40 glock resting beside him.
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Update:
The 10mm PCC is still not feeding 100%, I might try a lighter buller and a heavier spring and see if that helps.
The 45 TNW went to the mothership for some TLC, they said they replaced a bent extractor and now it runs fine but I'll have to see that for myself, been working WAY too much lately and range trips are hopefully happening next week sometime.
Lone Wolf put their Alpha Wolf 45 Carbine on sale and I snagged one, it runs well but HATES flat-nosed bullets, give it something with a tapered ogive and it runs just fine. Right now it's the favorite, and will be hard to displace.
A buddy of mine apparently caught the PCC fever from me and ordered a Freedom Ordnance FX-9, it looks cool but we haven't shot it yet.
Further updates pending. And I need to load a bunch of ammo, these things are voracious.......when they work! ::)
I know this is an old thread, and this isn't exactly a "carbine" but maybe this will be pertinent...
If you like Glocks, ever thought of going with a Micro-Roni Stabilizer/Brace (now called the MCK) from Command Arms? (I think they are now also making the MCK to fit the M&P and other lines of pistols, not just Glocks like they used to be limited to).
I have one that I fit a full sized G22 into, and while ballistically it is still a "pistol" the level of accuracy at a distance has been improved greatly due to the increased stability of the platform. Reliability, it's still 100% "Glock" inside.
This same rig will fit a G31 (.357Sig) which has some pretty good ballistics of its own, even out of a pistol. I think they also make them to harbor a G20 now.
It fits in nice/inconspicuous carry-bags too... Somebody looks into your back seat and sees a small bag like this, they think its loaded with a 5 year old girl's coloring books/toys (which this bag actually WAS my daughter's kindergarten backpack when she was 4 or 5)
:))
I now also now have a Bushnell TR-25 on it in a 1/3 co-witness height mount.
Hello Kitty:
(https://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l528/PJS50BMG/Todds%20Guns/Hello%20Kitty1_zpsfttpsmgt.jpg)
Turns into Hello MoFo: :o
(https://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l528/PJS50BMG/Todds%20Guns/Hello%20MoFo2_zpsquwm3yuf.jpg)
Here's a full Glock extended-mag group (165g JHPs) shot casually, offhand at 25 yards in my warehouse (about the size of a fist maybe, that white tape is 2" wide).
(https://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l528/PJS50BMG/Todds%20Guns/G22.25Y.Roni_zpsjsanx8ab.jpg)
Full-mag 50 yard targets with the same 165grainers are about 6"-7" across, shot in the same offhand fashion. 50 yards is the zero range I keep it at:
The one in the above pics is my first version of the Roni brace and I did have some trouble with the front locking piece fracturing under recoil on that one. I have a replacement/newer version now (MCK) which has the side-folding brace which is @3" longer than the one n the pic (still fits in Hello Kitty though), the new model's front fore-grip now holds an extra mag, and the front locking piece has been redesigned to be @ 2-3X as beefy as the previous brace one.
No, not a carbine, but pretty handy in a vehicle should longer than offhand pistol hits be required.
I've been tempted to get a G31 barrel for my G22 since the mags interchange from .40S&W & .357Sig.
Nice setup! Just an FYI regarding the Hello Kitty backpack. A friend of mine was an RO, until he retired last year, at an outdoor range near Flint, MI. He had to run off several gang bangers, several times, that showed up with children's backpacks with Dracos, AR pistols, and other weapons in them. It's a know thing to law enforcement in MI.
I don't know who you are, where you live, or what you look like, but it might be best to not be mistaken for something you're not. Especially during a traffic stop. Just a thought.
Thanks for the concern Greybeard, and BTW, I am a good guy, like I am sure you are too.
I'm not trying to hide my weapon from any LEO who is pulling me over for a traffic stop or whatever. I'm trying to obscure the fact that I have a weapon in the car for when the car may be parked. I once got an oil change at a car dealership, so I took Hello Kitty into the waiting area with me. As I was paying the bill and getting ready to leave, one lady commented that I was sure of my manhood to be walking around with a Hello Kitty backpack slung over one shoulder. I just smiled and agreed... LoL...
And, if you live in MI like I do, you know that I have to disclose that I am carrying a weapon as soon as any LEO asks me for ID anyway, so the pistol in the back pack is not an issue to start with. Also, it IS still a pistol, even in the MCK chassis, so in MI., it is perfectly legal to have it loaded in the car. Being a MI. CPL holder, I can even have it loaded and laying on the seat next to me if I wanted to (open carry), but I'm not that artless nor that paranoid to do that.
Actually, about a year ago, I was involved in a pretty serious accident and I not only was wearing a compact .45 at the time, I had Hello Kitty in the truck with me too.
(https://i1122.photobucket.com/albums/l528/PJS50BMG/Turtle1.r_zpsgzbkq65o.jpg)
I told the officer on the scene I was carrying and that I had another gun in the pink backpack in the truck too.
After the FD pried the car door open and got me un-suspended from the seatbelt, the cops took my sidearm and the backpack into custody while the EMS checked me out and because I certainly couldn't take them to the hospital with me. At the end of the ordeal, the cops thought Hello Kitty's contents was really awesome and I informed them how they could get one of their own. They didn't act like they had any idea what was in the pack before I told them and this was only about an hour SE of Flint.
Good guys have to watch out for each other, that's why I appreciate your comment.
Wow! Glad you weren't hurt badly in that rollover. Since you know the area I'll share that it was Williams Gunsight range that I was talking about. I'm glad that the LEOs involved were pro gun, some aren't.
You are absolutely correct, good guys need to look out for each other!
Pretty funny that you're from MI, too. We may have been standing next to each other at a range, or gun counter, somewhere.
Unfortunately, my neck and lower back will never be the same from that accident. I saved the idiot teenagers life by swerving hard when she pulled right out in front of me, but I tell you, when I'm laying in bed in pain and not being able to sleep, there I times when I wish I would have just run her over... I would have definitely "won" (she was in a little Pontiac G5)
Yes, I'm definitely familiar with Williams.
Just got 2 sets of their adjustable "Fire Sights" for my XDM 10mm and a 4" XD.45 that I have; great sights, very reasonably priced.
Have you ever been to the "unregulated" gravel pit range in Lapeer? It's kinda interesting when the boys from Flint show up there by the Suburban-full to shoot. But you know, we shouldn't necessarily stereotype them as gang bangers (although some of them definitely look the part). The people who live in bad areas/inner cities need defensive firearms more than most of us in the 'burbs, and they have to practice somewhere, right?
My 16 Y.O. son and I like to go "blastin" out there; week days are best so there is no crowd. We set up a small "course" across the firing line with targets anywhere from 5 feet to a 10" gong at 75 yards. We'll practice transition drills from AR to pistol and back. He's a big time Call of Duty gamer, so really loves doing it for real. I'm trying to teach him how to be a good 2nd man of a team. He's turning out to be a pretty good and safe shooter. When the Flint boys show up, I feel confident that he has my back...
The full-auto guys from my shooting club and elsewhere in SE MI. hold a pretty good sized MG shoot out there too, usually in the spring.
Sorry to hear you sustained permanent injuries. Glad you're still on the right side of the grass.
I have heard about the gravel pit many times, but never been there. The stories I've heard echo what you're saying.
As far as the car loads booted from Williams, definitely gangbangers. Showing up high at a gun range, getting booted for unsafe gun handling, then getting arrested a short distance away for stolen plates, felons w/firearms, pretty much made it clear. This was confirmed by an LEO in the family.
Decent folks in inner cities/bad areas actually have my utmost sympathy and support. One of the indoor ranges I regularly use had an unofficial scorecard amongst the instructors for inner city CPL graduates that used their firearms in legal defensive shootings. They take great pride in the good guys prevailing.
Do you ever attend the steel shoots at the Lapeer Sportsman's Club?