Well I overstayed my welcome at the other tumbler site and really wanted to delve into other aspects of this machine I am finding out. Beside the primer pockets being cleaned to excess I am finding the primer seating is much improved. I can feel the primer starting to seat then getting harder as I push in to the stopping point. This is the same on all rounds. Very uniform which I like. Not sure if it makes any difference but I like it. Will update this thread as I go along. Craig
I just cleaned some 303 Enfield but they were not in bad shape but talk about brand new looking, they are in the oven drying now. Craig
Being a liquid media guy for decades I understand the clean like new stuff. The Sidewinder I have has always made black brass like new in as little as 20 minutes using the RCBS Liquid case cleaner and Iosso with 2 cups of 7% vinegar in a gallon of water. Now that I've changed over to the steel pins it's been a trial and error kinda thing. The first batch using the pins I used the GunTap cleaner that came with the pins. Brass came out like new in 30 minutes. I also bought one of their big containers of the cleaner and it doesn't seem to work as good as the sample pack. The next batch came out LOOKING like new but was greasy. Tumbled the stuff again in Dawn and it came out greasy. Put everything aside and finally found the right Lemonshine. Lemonshine makes a host of products.......kinda like saying Ford or Chevrolet- they make all kinds of things. If you're wondering, it's the Lemonshine DISH WASHING BOOSTER that you're looking for. The Lemonshine and Dawn got the brass squeaky clean. So I'm still looking for THE formula to making a mix that works for cleaning and shining. It gotta be something like a couple of tablespoons of Dawn and a teaspoon of Lemonshine in 1 gallon of water. But I haven't tried that yet. Kinda funny, I ran out of brass to clean. So my experimenting is still on going. And hopefully, I have fixed the Sidewinder plastic trash so it doesn't leak. I made a stainless steel end plate for the drum and epoxied it together. Had a little trouble getting the drum to fit since it was 1/32" thicker but it works and that's all I care about. I find that the pins work pretty good but they need help with getting crud off of the cases. The original formula I was using is just too expensive. But maybe adding cheap vinegar to the Dawn and Lemonshine might do the trick. Now all I need is brass that isn't already clean.
I just got lucky I guess but I use Lemishine that comes in a disposable bag that I cut open and just sprinkle in as a little goes a long way. Too much and it overloads the bowl and I think the pressure leaks out of any loose type of closure if that makes sense. I don't use any detergent at all but I do use stainless steel chips that really gets into primer pockets etc. It's the best system for brass cleaning I have ever seen. Craig
More observations!! You can't keep up with resizing/de-primering thinking you will out run the tumbler. You can't. The most you can hope for in like half the cleaning time is 100 9mm empties worked. I can't do like 500 resizing I will go crazy. It's just nice to know it's not slowing you down. Quite the opposite I am thinking. This is much faster than a vibrator machine. More to come. Craig
Fellas,
I'm not a wet tumbler, yet. The Mrs. thinks I should be. I did buy some wet tumbled brass however, & I didn't find it as "slick" as my dry tumbled brass. It made my LnL just a little harder to operate. Have you noticed that? or do you do something to overcome the friction?
I haven't noticed any friction in my 9mm reloadings or my 303 British Enfield but haven't done a ton of either to notice I guess. I like dry brass not "wet"or slippery stuff.
Slayer, I use SS pins, Dawn and Lemishine to clean my brass. I also put the empties, standing up, on an old plastic tray and give them a very short spray of Hornady One Shot case lube. It makes a noticeable difference, especially on thicker walled cases like 10mm and .44mag. It's dry to the touch about 2-3 minutes after you spray it on.
I have heard of people having issues with bottleneck cases using One Shot, basically a hydrostatic type lockup in the sizing die. But for straight walled cases it's always worked perfectly for me.
BTW I just thought that I deprimer and resize before going to the tumbler. It's the only way I can do the primer pockets the way I like. Craig
OK time for a little update!! I have developed a small problem that I solved in short order. I was resizing and depriming in one step then doing the tumbler then primering and then on to the tray for powder. I missed the flaring and had to do it with the powder in the cases. No big problem as I have done it before. I am now doing the flare after the resizer and then on to the tumbler. This really makes more sense to me then anything else. After drying the brass I then do the primer then powder and finish with bullet. We are having fun now!!! Best way to think of this is to do the flare last before the tumbler and you will find this easier. At leased I do anyway. The confusion for me came about as I do want the case primer pocket empty going into the tumbler as the system cleans the pockets like new!! I never did anything with primer pockets before getting this tumbler. I am shocked every time the brass comes out of the tumbler as it is just so clean!!! Craig
Something you might consider. I load for the family and that seems to be an endless amount of guns. Not complaining but sometimes it gets a little much. Lee makes a universal decapping die. It works on any round, pistol or rifle, and all it does is push the primer out- no sizing involved. Sometimes my nephew who is an attorney, brings crap he's picked up at the range that is black and has dirt in the case. The decapping pin isn't effected by the junk and just does it's work. Then I clean the brass. Solves the headache of running nasty brass thru the dies and makes it like you were loading brand new brass.
On another side of the coin. I've been using the GunTap detergent and Lemonshine but I've had issues. Lemonshine is nothing but citrus acid and that's what makes it work. But I've had problems with the cases coming out with something on them that is black on the fingers and feels greasy. The cases shine like new but in fact have this yuck on them. I've gone back to using the cheap vinegar and I'm back to squeaky clean again. If your hands/fingers are getting black from handling the "cleaned" brass, might try adding a cup to a gallon of 5 or 7% vinegar to the mix. Look at it like magnum Lemonshine.
Trapper, are you using this LemiShine product? https://www.lemishine.com/products/lemi-shine-rinse/ That's what I use with Dawn dish soap. It's the anti spotting agent, not a detergent booster. I'm glad the universal decapping die is working out. I use the heck out of mine.
Gadabout, I'm a little surprised that you choose to do things in this order. One of the great benefits of SS media cleaning in not introducing any dirt and gunk into your dies/press. Like Trapper, I knock the primers out and off to the tumbler. It's like starting out with new shiny brass every time. A little One Shot Case Lube makes sizing a little easier, too. I have no doubt your process works, but it seems like you're working a little harder at it and not getting all of the benefits.
Graybeard, I am using the Booster which was the product shown to me at a different website. It is a crystal rather than a liquid like the one you are using. BOTH are citrus acid based but yours uses an alcohol in the formulation. They both use the citrus acid CAS 77-92-9. The Booster is a lot stronger by formulation. Obviously the vinegar I'm using now is even far stronger than either of these products. Citrus acid cleaners have been around since the caveman, I think. It's very good at what it does and is not harmful to the brass or you.
FWIW, Nu-Finish car polish. At one time this car polish was next to dangerous to use in a tumbler for cleaning brass. The item in the formulation that actually cleans the brass is Stoddard Solvent, CAS 8052-41-3 which you probably know as dry cleaning fluid. At one time, the polish contained a ceramic microcrystal that would embed itself into the brass. The problem was that it acted just like a lubricant. Bolt thrust was increased dramatically. Those who were loading max loads were at risk of wearing the bolt on their face. In a semi-auto, slide speed was increased beating good firearms into crap. Thankfully, it no longer contains the microcystal. What is cleaning the brass is Stoddard Solvent. Stoddard Solvent is also one of the best fuel injector cleaners out there. But Nu-Finish should NOT be used in the gasoline, LOL.
Gotcha Trapper, thanks for the reply.
Yeah I thought about the universal decapper but never pulled the trigger on one. I just think it's another step when you have to resize anyway. It's really breaking old habits I have had for 40+ years but I will get it done one way or the other, Craig
Boy thinking it over I ordered the Lee decapper yesterday, should be here Wednesday. I do think doing a few hundred like 9mm at a time might be the ticket. Will give it a try and get back to you all. Craig
I use & like the Lee decapper for 357 Sig because of the evil small flash holes on Speer brass. It's so small it binds up with any other decapping pin.
OK got the decapper in today and did a few hundred 9mm and they are ready for the tumbler but I want to more before doing the tumbler. The decapper did as expected and I think I am going to love it after a while. Craig
I can do 100 cases in 15 minutes and more if I just sat and did them. They are being cleaned right now and I may have time to "cook" them (dry them) Something else to think about. I now have a old Lyman pumpkin that I had made into a large vibrator cleaner that I will never use at this point and I have a lot of leftover stainless chips. I an thinking about trying to make a large rotary tumbler or does anyone think I could use the stainless chips as is???There would be enough power to vibrate everything but is the falling brass a big part of the cleaning process? I guess I could try it. Boy you could really do some quantity at that point. Craig Any ideas???
Haven't posted in a week or so but I have been checking in between reloading sessions. I am doing 40 cal for a friend so I got 100 40 in the tumbler right now. Also a point of interest. I used to use the plastic netting bags in the corn to separate calibers when needed. I am trying a net bag in this tumbler with some 41AE I found mixed in with the forty. I will update with a final on how it works in this tumbler if at all. Craig
The net bag doesn't seem to work. I think it is too big for the tumbler and restricts the ss chip action. One of the 41AE empties was black from being on the ground and I put it in the tumbler by itself with a couple other 41's, all came out new except the black one need a little more time. Still works super for cleaning etc. Craig
Had an idea derived from some ideas I have had in doing this tumbler method of cleaning. Been having trouble sorting the brass from the media with loosing some of the media as I tried to pour the brass and media into the pan to dry it in the stove. Today with the brass and media fresh out of the tumbler I used an old media sifter that I used to get out the corn with the upright vibrator tumbler. I used this sifter over an paper bucket I found in the trash. It worked!!! I will get a small plastic bucket to use to replace the paper bucket but the idea is sound. The stainless steel chips stick with whatever surface when wet so that is one little problem the bucket can sit until the ss media dries and then it comes right out. I may take this to the next level and use the sifter over the old upright vibrator tumbler as it would work the same. Craig
I'm using the same type "sifter" to separate the brass from the liquid and stainless media. Rinse the brass and I dry mine with a hair dryer. Takes about 5 minutes with a hair dryer to dry 500 9mm cases. The liquid/media I separate by pouring all it in a nut milk bag I got from Amazon. It's basically a nylon bag about the size of notebook paper and has real fine mesh. The liquid easily goes thru it while the pins stay in the bag. Rinse the bag/media off and the media is ready to go. The bags I bought come 2 to a pkg, so far I've cleaned about 10,000 cases using the same bag, and it shows no sign of wear. Always options.
I forgot to say I use a fairly fine cooking strainer to rinse off the brass and ss media. It was the separating that was the issue for me. With a strainer I was loosing some media due to shaking the strainer to get it empty. My new way with the let's say larger strainer the ss media goes to the bucket and the brass stays in the strainer problem solved. I will try your hair dryer as it sounds very good and quick. Craig
A couple of things! I bought some 40 cal brass from a gun show brass seller. It was cleaned but looked like vibrator style cleaning. I just took it out of the tumbler and it looks newer than new. BTW I tried the hair dryer drying idea and it works super. Also my new idea of straining to separating the brass from the stainless media worked super. Boy I am getting there in general. Craig
Well I am ready to jump off the deep end, Ha Ha. I am finalizing plans for a tumbler I am building from scratch. Should be about 6 or 8 times the normal size but can make it smaller if need be. I would like to be able to do 1000 plus cases at a time. All I need to finish the idea is a way to connect the v-belt pulleys to the cylinder or pvc pipe if I can't find a cylinder to use. We are haven fun now!!! Craig
Trapper6L A while back you were talking about a kind of blue grease on the cases. I ran into this just today while I was depriming 100 300 Blackout cases I got this weekend at a gun show. The brass was once fired mixed head stamps that I think the guy cleaned but that is all. I have gotten brass before from him that was worked up, deprimed, cleaned but empty of course. We will see how it works up as I still need to resize clean and reload. I will get back. Craig
One thing I have noticed with this process is that I am not getting the forming action in the tumbler I was getting when I first started this process. I am just using ss chips and lemishine, nothing else but I was getting some foam with the lemishine. I opened up the tumbler after 15 minutes and added a lost piece of brass and more lemishine and after another 20 minutes or so I open the tumbler and no form but real clean brass!!! so I guess it's OK but I will try some liquid detergent of some kind. Craig
Most any of the liquid detergents like Dawn will not have anti-foaming agents in the mix. If you want you can use a powder form of dishwasher detergent like Cascade. I make up mine in a 1 gallon jug. I get 2-3 loads of brass out of a gallon. I'm using an old laundry detergent bottle to make and store it in. If you don't have one, buy a 128 oz laundry detergent and use it when it runs out. As of now, I'm using 1 tablespoon Cascade in a gallon of water, 1 cup of cheap vinegar, and add about 1/2 teaspoon of Lemishine. Works better than the powder case cleaner I had which was inconsistent in the finished brass. If the brass just needs a little touch up, just the cheap vinegar and water and about 20-30 minutes in the tumbler and it's back to new. The vinegar is a weak acid and gently eats the crap off of the cases without etching the brass.
Hey Trap thanks for the info and I am testing a load with a cheap dish liquid with lemishine on 100 cases of 300 blackout. I did the same yesterday without the detergent and we will see how it comes out. :-\ Craig
Well that kind of failed!!! I think there was too much soap as after it came out of the oven it was stuck together. I redid the whole bunch and even after a good rinse it foamed up like crazy. Anyway I will just try a very small amount of soap. The brass is very clean now :)) Craig
You'll never be able to use a small enough amount of liquid dish soap to ever get rid of the resulting soap film. Trust me, you need a detergent that has anti-foaming agents and rinse agents like a powdered dishwasher detergent. Since Lemishine is a dishwasher powder, you might just leave the liquid dish soap out of the formula and use Lemishine by itself. Now if you have .3 micron silica available to you, an 1/8 teaspoon per gallon should be more than enough to correct the faults with the liquid soap.
Yeah Trapper I am coming to the same conclusion!! I was just concerned after the first few loads I was getting no suds at all. Didn't know if it made any difference so I was just trying stuff!! Seems like most opted for Dawn or the like. Funny as this works so well why do I even look for anything else is beyond me. Craig
Just did a load of 100 300 blackout cases with just lemishine and they came out super perfect and a little suds too boot.