All they had...suggestions for 10mm? 155, 180, 200 XTP
Hodgdon's 2012 Annual shows the following for WSF
155gr Hornady XTP
6.8 grains @ 1100 fps 23,000 psi
8.4 grains @ 1320 fps 35,600 psi
180 gr Sierra JHC
5.7 grains @ 950 fps 25,000 psi
7.1 grains @ 1150 fps 35,600 psi
200gr Horady XTP
5.2 grains @ 880 fps 26,200 psi
6.2 grains @ 1020 fps 35,600 psi
These are the listed loads, take care and enjoy! ;D
If you can post a picture of the WSF powder in a scale pan! Thanks. :)
That would be awesome if someone who has WSF would post a closeup pic of the powder. 8)
I thought I already did post a pic of WSF, in a thread where we discussed Underwood's 9mm 124gr +P and +P+ loads. I don't remember the name of the thread though. It looks almost identical to what Underwood is using, but doesn't meet the same velocity. (My lot of WSF doesn't, anyway.)
Yondering, I went back and reviewed the 9mm pull-downs and didn't see any post of the WSF powder from you. It maybe why I'm still searching for a picture...If you could I would appreciated it!
Will post a pic when i get one thanks for the load data
OK, here are a couple pics. First one is WSF in a scale pan:
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/Win_WSF.jpg)
Here is WSF next to Silhouette and whatever Underwood uses in the 124gr +P and +P+ loads. The three powders are clearly different; WSF is more coarse and angular, and Silhouette is more yellowish and finer flakes.
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/IMG_1248a.jpg)
Also, re. the OP's question - WSF performs similarly to Unique for handgun loads. It is not a magnum pistol powder, don't try to get top velocity from it. It's a good powder when used correctly though, and meters well.
Thanks for the picture Yondering...I have added them to my powder picture data files. I was trying to buy some Auto Comp but the crap hit the fan and the supplies dried up for now! :o
I'll be getting some Auto Comp when it is available... ;D
Thanks for posting the pics Yondering! 8)
Still a mystery powder. Wonder if Brian Enos could ID?
Quote from: Yondering on March 18 2013 09:37:52 PM MDT...whatever Underwood uses in the 124gr +P and +P+ loads. The three powders are clearly different; WSF is more coarse and angular, and Silhouette is more yellowish and finer flakes.
Is there any chance Longshot is the powder used? If not, why?
I sure wish I could find recipes for the 185 grain Precision Bullets that I reload. I always end up extrapolating from midway between 180 grain loads and 190-200 grain loads. :(
Quote from: REDLINE on March 21 2013 10:28:31 AM MDT
Quote from: Yondering on March 18 2013 09:37:52 PM MDT...whatever Underwood uses in the 124gr +P and +P+ loads. The three powders are clearly different; WSF is more coarse and angular, and Silhouette is more yellowish and finer flakes.
Is there any chance Longshot is the powder used? If not, why?
I still think it is Winchester Auto Comp powder in the Underwood 9mm +P+
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 21 2013 11:36:01 AM MDT
Quote from: REDLINE on March 21 2013 10:28:31 AM MDT
Quote from: Yondering on March 18 2013 09:37:52 PM MDT...whatever Underwood uses in the 124gr +P and +P+ loads. The three powders are clearly different; WSF is more coarse and angular, and Silhouette is more yellowish and finer flakes.
Is there any chance Longshot is the powder used? If not, why?
I still think it is Winchester Auto Comp powder in the Underwood 9mm +P+
Just to make sure I'm on the same page, does the powder you found in the post I've quoted below represent the same powder that's in the UW 9mm 124gr +P load that Yondering is referencing?
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 21 2012 05:36:00 PM MST
Cartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: Underwood 9mm +P+ 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
Ballistics Information: 9mm +P+
Muzzle Velocity: 1400 fps
Muzzle Energy: 501 ft. lbs
Pictures: Before/After disassembly:
Brass Make/Headstamp: Star Line - Brass
Bullet Make/Weight/Construction/Info; Length 0.5260"/Dia. 0.3550": Speer Gold Dot 115gr. JHP actual weight 114.6 grains
C.O.A.L.: 1.0580"
Primer: Brass color
Case: Diameter 0.3865" Crimp Diameter 0.3760" Length 0.7490"
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: smaller flattened ball powder than LS silvery color ?? 7.0 grains (suggest Auto Comp powder / non canister name SMP 242 ? )
Tested January 27th 2013 Velocity 1447 fps as tested from the Ruger P-85, primer slightly flattened Case expanded 0.3930"
(https://s20.postimg.cc/jks29iwst/IMG_0154.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/a08fmnf6l/IMG_0200.jpg)
(https://s20.postimg.cc/6tdw312gd/IMG_0199.jpg)
Powder compared to LongShot outside the pan
(https://s20.postimg.cc/sskaq8r0d/IMG_0202.jpg)
Closeup view of powder from the +P+ 9mm
(https://s20.postimg.cc/4c24vrxzh/IMG_0203.jpg)
As weighed
(https://s20.postimg.cc/ti332m6zh/IMG_0204-1.jpg)
Yup same powder.
Quote from: The_Shadow on November 21 2012 05:36:00 PM MSTCartridge is from Ammo Manufacture: Underwood 9mm +P+ 115gr Speer Gold Dot JHP
Ballistics Information: 9mm +P+
Muzzle Velocity: 1400 fps
Powder Description/Positive ID/Type/Charge Weight: smaller flattened ball powder than LS silvery color ?? 7.0 grains (suggest Auto Comp powder / non canister name SMP 242 ? )
Tested January 27th 2013 Velocity 1447 fps as tested from the Ruger P-85, primer slightly flattened Case expanded 0.3930"
Powder compared to LongShot outside the pan
(https://s20.postimg.cc/sskaq8r0d/IMG_0202.jpg)
I think Winchester Auto Comp is the best going guess at the 7.0gr charge weight to get the velocity. I'm thinking with Hodgdon Longshot one would need more like 8.0gr or more.
Not sure about what is in Yondering's 124 gr +P load, as I did not see this till recently. However it does look like what was in the Underwood 9mm 115gr +P+ @ 1400 fps, that I still suspect is Winchester Auto Comp. One way to be sure is to obtain the AutoComp and do a test to see if it does perform at that level! Remember I did find a post on the Brian Enos Site where a guy achieved those numbers using Auto Comp powder, it is over the book listed loads of Hodgdon/Winchester...
I'm waiting on supplies to be available for purchase the Auto Comp powder to do some testing! :-[
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 21 2013 03:28:19 PM MDT
Not sure about what is in Yondering's 124 gr +P load, as I did not see this till recently. However it does look like what was in the Underwood 9mm 115gr +P+ @ 1400 fps, that I still suspect is Winchester Auto Comp. One way to be sure is to obtain the AutoComp and do a test to see if it does perform at that level! Remember I did find a post on the Brian Enos Site where a guy achieved those numbers using Auto Comp powder, it is over the book listed loads of Hodgdon/Winchester...
I'm waiting on supplies to be available for purchase the Auto Comp powder to do some testing! :-[
Thank you for reminding me. I had forgot about that. :-[
You can't find any down there? I could buy some and ship it to you if it's legal to try.
Quote from: The_Shadow on March 21 2013 03:28:19 PM MDT
Not sure about what is in Yondering's 124 gr +P load, as I did not see this till recently. However it does look like what was in the Underwood 9mm 115gr +P+ @ 1400 fps, that I still suspect is Winchester Auto Comp. One way to be sure is to obtain the AutoComp and do a test to see if it does perform at that level! Remember I did find a post on the Brian Enos Site where a guy achieved those numbers using Auto Comp powder, it is over the book listed loads of Hodgdon/Winchester...
I'm waiting on supplies to be available for purchase the Auto Comp powder to do some testing! :-[
The 7.0gr in that 115gr +P+ load seems consistent with 6.6gr in the 124gr +P+ load, so I would agree that it is probably the same powder in both. I would want to work up both loads to be sure though.
Shadow, didn't you pull down some of the Underwood 9mm 124gr loads? I thought you had, but if not:
- The 124gr Gold Dot +P 9mm load contained 5.5gr of powder, OAL 1.045"
- The 124gr Gold Dot +P+ 9mm load contained 6.6gr of powder, OAL 1.115"
Both loads appeared to have the same powder type, and looked just like your 115gr load above, except for the heavier bullet.
Those two were older loading from Underwood they contained Hodgdon's Universal Clays with a reddish colored flake...
Neither were said to be +P they were Intercooler's older stuff he sent to pull-down
The 115 actually had 5.0 grains and the 125 had 5.2 grains
(https://s20.postimg.cc/guiqchsfx/IMG_0517_zps1ec8dc09.jpg)
I like Universal Clays; I think of it as a cleaner burning version of Unique. It is a great powder for standard pressure 9mm (and 45 ACP too).
Yea Kevin didn't market his early 9's as +P but the 115gr hit 1250 FPS out of my 4" barrel and the 124gr hit 1200 FPS which is about what market +P boxes have for velocity. We may never figure out the new +P+ powder but... I have one more try if we can't get it here and I bet it hits pay-dirt!
While I was in Denham Springs outside of Baton Rouge, I stopped at the Bass Pro Shop and there was no powder or primers to be had... >:( Therefore I couldn't get any AutoComp powder to do a work up for this project. Things have got to get better soon! ???
I have Auto Comp powder here if you would like to see pics of it I will see what I can do. I use it in my 40 S&W but have not tried it in 9mm or 10mm.
Quote from: 10mmTim on March 26 2013 10:52:36 AM MDT
I have Auto Comp powder here if you would like to see pics of it I will see what I can do. I use it in my 40 S&W but have not tried it in 9mm or 10mm.
Pics would be great Tim! Thanks!
Is there still a chance for some closeups of WSF from anyone?
WSF pictures will be great too, but I need good closeup pictures of Winchester Auto Comp. 8)
I thought you already had the WSF pic. I have some. I can post it up, if you want. Sorry, no Auto Comp.
Maybe we do have a pic and I just can't remember the thread it's in. :-[ If you would post one here, that would be awesome too. 8)
The other picture that was posted was that of RamShot Silhouette which was the same as Winchester discontinued Action Pistol or WAP... ???
WSF being Winchester Super Field, I do have two pics but one other than under a magnified source the other is in a scale pan. Another picture can't hurt.
Most of the pictures were in the 9mm pull-down Threads http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood-9mm-115gr-speer-gold-dot-jhp/ (http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10mm-ammo/underwood-9mm-115gr-speer-gold-dot-jhp/)
WSF
Lot #1072711/2142
Let me know if you need a better or different pic. These are with different lighting. Others I took changed the colors a bit. It's pouring down rain now, or I'd get them in natural light.
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/DMM_1906/Shoot/100_1471_zps9f36b37c.jpg)(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b600/DMM_1906/Shoot/100_1473_zps06bb4c16.jpg)
Quote from: REDLINE on March 31 2013 05:22:16 PM MDT
Maybe we do have a pic and I just can't remember the thread it's in. :-[ If you would post one here, that would be awesome too. 8)
I posted this pic in another thread, not too long ago. Don't remember which thread though...
(http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c26/zthang43/Bang/Misc/IMG_1248a.jpg)
Is it just me or doesn't that look like it?
This is what was in the Underwood 9mm +P+
(https://s20.postimg.cc/4c24vrxzh/IMG_0203.jpg)
See how rounded and smooth the flakes are?
BTW, Thanks DM1906 and yes Yondering you did post that picture, Other views do help when it is unknow?
It doesn't look like it to me either.
WSF is the closest in performance that I've tried to whatever Underwood is using, but it's not the same. It does look visually different, and doesn't perform the same either.
Like Shadow, I'm still wanting to try some AutoComp when I can get some. Almost bought some a while back, but changed the order to Silhouette, thinking that was more likely, but that's not it either.