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Quote from: 4949shooter on May 01 2016 04:33:09 AM MDTThanks, I am new to the forum, but not new to shooting. I'm very pleased with my 10mm Glock and I'm just starting out on the learning curve!
I am no expert by any means.
But we have ammo in the 800 foot pounds of energy listed on the sheet. The newer Glocks (2011+) have been firing the hot ammo without a hitch.
I would venture a semi educated guess that with a light bullet and high KE we could get into the 900 foot pound area.
Welcome to the forum, BTW.
Quote from: DM1906 on April 21 2016 11:03:18 AM MDTThanks for your reply and the benefit of your experience. I have always maintained that a good set of legs and some common sense outweighs any caliber of bullet. But since, in these days of common place violence, the choice of weapon is important to me. I live in a Californian city where we have a very large population of homeless 50% of which are convicted felons released from jail because of our dear governor being a liberal and not wanting to spend money on more prisons.Quote from: Bazzer on April 20 2016 09:47:06 PM MDTQuote from: DM1906 on April 20 2016 09:26:49 PM MDTQuote from: Mike_Fontenot on April 20 2016 01:53:28 PM MDTQuote from: Bazzer on April 10 2016 12:16:56 AM MDT
http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal%20Ballistics%20as%20viewed%20in%20a%20morgue.htm
That guy needs some SERIOUS help in learning how to be more concise. What finally made him stop ... a power failure?
Yeah. I read it over 2 days. It was worth the time. It wasn't that he was that long winded. That "article" is a compilation of (short reply) posts in a very long discussion thread, over a long period of time. This also explains some of the redundancies. I feel sorry for the poor bastard who went through that ten thousand post thread and compiled it!
So for those that bothered to read it all you might see that practical results ( deaths) seem to be different than those obtained by gel testing.
The FBI and other forces keep changing there minds over which is the best caliber to choose, when it might seem that the .357 Mag is still better at stopping than any other. This is one reason that I have chosen the 10mm since it is close in performance to the 357. However, I still carry my scandium S&W 340 a lot of the time. Even if I don't hit the target the flash will scare the crap out of them! Them being perbs of course.
My reading of it was, essentially, a peer review. I'm a retired coroner, having investigated many homicides, suicides, and firearm related assaults, although his level of experience and case frequency far exceeds mine. His opinions were based on similar conditions as mine, essentially an unofficial average take on decades of personal-professional observations. I concur with his conclusions, as to the effectiveness of calibers, including the collective ineffectiveness of the 9mm, and the vast superiority of the .45ACP and any magnum. Analog testing, in my experience, has very little similarity with actual results on real persons. I still do the testing, but for comparative and personal curiosity reasons alone. What I carry and rely on for personal defense is not, necessarily, what performs best in gel, water, or wetted newsprint, etc. Ultimately, most arguments regarding bullet design, bullet mass, velocity are moot. Hits are hits, and misses are misses. As has been said repeatedly, carry as much power and capacity as you can bear and use effectively. Any weapon, no matter how "purdy" or big it is, will be logged as personal effects if you can't wield it effectively in every conceivable situation. Remember, the defensive shooter doesn't choose the venue or conditions of the event. The only choice you have to make, is to engage or not engage.
Quote from: DM1906 on April 20 2016 09:26:49 PM MDTQuote from: Mike_Fontenot on April 20 2016 01:53:28 PM MDTQuote from: Bazzer on April 10 2016 12:16:56 AM MDT
http://www.gunthorp.com/Terminal%20Ballistics%20as%20viewed%20in%20a%20morgue.htm
That guy needs some SERIOUS help in learning how to be more concise. What finally made him stop ... a power failure?
Yeah. I read it over 2 days. It was worth the time. It wasn't that he was that long winded. That "article" is a compilation of (short reply) posts in a very long discussion thread, over a long period of time. This also explains some of the redundancies. I feel sorry for the poor bastard who went through that ten thousand post thread and compiled it!
Quote from: sqlbullet on April 11 2016 08:12:06 AM MDTActually of course I'm not under the impression that gel test is to provide performance data in a real world situation. But given all the discussion of this caliber is better than that caliber I'm just suggesting a better way. Somewhere on YouTube there is a video of someone killing a pig with a air rifle. Of course shot placement is paramount. A 22 to the heart is likely to produce the same result as a 454 to the heart. Bit in a SD scenario even if the 454 misses buy a wide margin it's likely to end up with the same result as the 22. I see all the time so called permanent wound channels is gel. The human body is not gel, it's composed of many different densities of tissues.
Bazzer, you seem to be under the belief that ballistics gel testing is to evaluate a given projectiles performance in real world scenarios. That is an incorrect belief.
The purpose of ballistics gel testing is a completely standardized test for comparing between bullets, or for the same bullet between velocity.
A 22 LR is a great round for putting living things to death if you can take the ideal shot. I have slaughtered many cows growing up in rural Indiana, and every singe one of them dropped from a single 22lr. Never needed a follow up shot at all. That is a real world test against proper flesh and bone.
Of course, I had all the time in the world to take the perfect shot.
On the other hand, lots of starlings lived to annoy another day as I was learning shotgunning as a youth. Mostly because I took poor shots, or I yanked the trigger.
There are far, far too many factors at play in "real world" tissue for it to tell us much, especially in our primary goal of such testing of comparing different bullets.
We all agree that ballistics gel doesn't provide an analog to real world performance. That is not it's design goal. The design goal of ballistics gel is to give us repeatable standardized information about how one bullet/velocity compares to another in soft tissue.
And at that job ballistics gel has no equal (so far).
Quote from: The_Shadow on April 07 2016 09:23:22 AM MDTThanks for the response. I forgot to mention 10mm and my Glock 29 are new to me. At the moment I am checking every cartridge with a Dillon Go/NoGo gauge. This gauge appears to have tighter tolerances than the chamber on my Glock. So far the only failure I have had is when I started with the taper crimp die to loose to remove the "bell" put in at the powder station. Once adjusted the problem has gone away. But in the meantime, not knowing how much crimp to put on, I'll continue to check every cartridge.
Bazzer, just keep the pass through setup in your mind as you may find some brass that are expanded very low (just above the extractor cut) In all of the brass I have measured during the pull downs Starline brass measures 0.4215"-0.4220" in this area. The cartridge gauge is usually 0.4240" and my brass after the pass through process is 0.4230", some of my barrels are as as tight as the cartridge gauge...
Max expansion in the Glock factory barrels have shown to expand to 0.4340" and any more than that is starting to "SMILE"!
When you think about the sizing die, look at the carbide ring opening, there is a radiused edge to allow the cases to enter easily, and then the shell plate or shell holder are areas that do not allow case wall contact to reduce it back to original size.
This is where a full pass through whether Redding GRX or LEE FCD (guts removed Bulge Buster) works to size the area and even the extraction rims are made uniformly round in the process. This process also allows me another opportunity to see any damaged casings.
In a recent range trip I found 30 spent 10mm brass on the FBI range, all Federal cases as shot from the HK MP-5 10mm. Of those I found only 20 to be useable as the rest had splits the length of the case. This has been a very common situation with the contract ammo shot in these guns...
