Quote from: The_Shadow on September 15 2016 08:25:55 AM MDT
Roguer, something is amiss with the G-20.  What generation is it? 3rd? 4th?  If this is a factory new gun call Glock to return to Glock!

Just to be sure, before you try to remove the slide, did you pull the trigger to decock the striker?
Is your RSA (recoil spring assembly) factory?
If you have the gun apart, inspect the recoil assembly for damage, the spring could be binding up toward the end of slide  retraction.  Have you tried the slide on the frame without the RSA inside to see if there is any binding or stopping short?

Inspect the locking block where the barrel sits, for bent or broken damage.

What about the plunger in the slide, does it move freely?  Is it binding?  If binding you might need to remove the slide cover plate (carefully because there is the spring and rod for the extractor under some pressure).  Remove the striker and inspect all parts for incorrect assembly or damage.

Glocks are fairly simple guns with few parts...

Good points, but I was under the impression this is a new, unfired G40.

That definitely sounds wrong. Make sure the trigger/ejector group assy rear pin is in place. I'd remove and replace it, to make sure the assy is fully seated and the pin isn't broken. If it's missing or broken, that's about the only thing I can think of that would cause what you describe, short of a major component actually bent or broken. The trigger shouldn't reset until about the last 1/4" of forward travel. If it's resetting or interfering before that, something's outta whack, or broken.

Quote from: Roguer on September 13 2016 09:50:02 PM MDT
OK after take apart where it seems to be a PIA slide removal that can be done after a few attempts each, seems some weird trick to get it done on this gun.

Then I got the slide to rack back several times to reset and lock up. But a few times I had to do the push the bar to push the trigger all the way forward to get the gun to rack back to reset. Trigger resets and the gun operates normally after that.  I have a feeling this isn't normal?

Edit: FOUND SOME THING!

OK...U-TUBE to the rescue!  Its the bump on the trigger bar!  Move slide to left when moving back then move back right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj8Qt8ofCAw

Still a PIA to field strip still...

Simply put, there's something wrong with your pistol, or your familiarity with them. Visit an armorer or your LGS for a closer look.

For those having issues with Gen4 G20's not feeding high(er) power rounds, a simple spring swap should be all that's needed. Either convert to a Gen3 single, or a SS Gen4 double (LWD now has them). With either option, spring weights can be tuned. It's 20-40 bucks you shouldn't have to spend, but it works. The additional slide mass of the G40 seems to take care of that issue in every case I've seen, so a re-spring should be optional.

Also consider, Buffalo Bore's statement in regards to the differences is from a retailer, with a product to sell. I don't but much weight in their statement, and their base statement is misleading, if not outright untruthful. The reference to their hard cast containing "some" lead is not reality. Fact is, hard cast, by anyone's definition, including yours, mine and theirs, contains mostly lead, almost exclusively 90%+. Very (very!) rarely will a lead alloy used for casting bullets contain less than about 90% lead. The BHN variation between 4 and 12 requires less than 5% "other than lead" (antimony/tin), while 18-21 requires about 7%.

That said, most hand-casters don't know, really, what lead alloy they are using. On a rare occasion, one may have a source that is more predictable than others. SQL, for example, has a source that is probably more predictable than any other, short of sourcing a specific order from a smelting supplier. Even then, it isn't certain, as most all lead "alloys" are made from recycled lead, and are certified at a specific "pour weight", rather than a specific alloy content, with only a "range" specified as to content. "Pure", virgin lead is costly, and becoming more difficult to source outside the corporate world in other than finished retail products (such as a component bullet). Purified lead, which is recycled lead with much of the alloyed metals removed, is only slightly less costly, but can be done by the consumer. I do it with very close temperature monitoring and pine pitch. Still, my pure lead isn't "pure" (such as virgin lead), but it's close enough for my needs (about 5-6 BHN). For example, a Minie-ball BHN over about 7-8 will cause some leading in my rifles, while less does not (at all). Higher BHN = more leading. It's only that simple. Of course, this doesn't translate exactly from a muzzle loader to a breach loader, but it is relevant. A breach loader has the advantage of free-bore, which offers greater projectile-to-bore diameter differentials, which is what we are talking about, after all.

The bottom line.....
Firing bare-lead bullets from your polygonal barrel is possible, and safe. All the same rules apply as for traditionally rifled barrels. The problem is knowing exactly what you have, in order to follow those rules. Slug the leade and bore, then size the bullets accordingly. It can be complicated, but it doesn't have to be.

Quote from: Unimakpass on September 10 2016 01:17:39 PM MDT
Thanks for all the information. Feel like I got a base to work from. Just got back from hauling freight to Uganik Bay at Kodiak Island. Went ahead and got a glock 20 gen4. Figured if I'm going to upgrade trigger, barrel, ect. might as well start from that platform. Can lone the gen3 to the crew with the stock trigger when we go off hiking in different directions.
  Also read that "hard cast" bullets are fine in glock barrels. It's "lead" bullets that cause the fouling. Good news because it sounds like glock barrels are the most reliable.

https://www.buffalobore.com/index.php?l=product_list&c=54

"Hard cast" is "lead". Factually, hard cast is much more likely to lead a bore than pure, soft lead, all else being equal. The issue is bore diameter vs. bullet diameter, the conditions necessary to provide an ideal gas seal. A poor fit will cause leading, regardless of any other factor. If you have reservations firing lead bullets, of any type, consider them all equal. Unless you know, as fact, what is your bore diameter, and the bullet diameter, one is just as likely as any other to be good or bad.

Quote from: 4949shooter on September 06 2016 07:15:36 PM MDT
10mm would have prevented this. 

Perhaps. But training (or the lack thereof) was a much larger factor. We still have to hit our targets, and at best, we're only doing that at a rate of 20%. 12" penetration is not required to shut down a nervous system. But that doesn't matter if the target is missed, altogether. In 1986, the 10mm wasn't an option, but .357 and .41 magnums were. These weren't politically correct at the time, and aren't now for law enforcement. The .357M was acceptable, but not universal. It should have been. I carried a .357M (with .357M Silvertips, which I paid for) until about 1993. I traded effectiveness for capacity. It seemed like the thing to do, at the time. I was lucky, and never had to test the decision. My primary carry now is 10mm or (full power, no holds barred) .357S. I DON'T GIVE A RAT'S ASS ABOUT OVERPENETRATION. I don't care much about political correctness, either, which is what that is. I train now, more so than before I retired. Get the job done! End.

Quote from: redbaron007 on September 06 2016 02:20:20 PM MDT
"This is correct.

However, aftermarket Gen3 springs can be used in Gen4 pistols, but an adapter is required (a simple bushing). The Gen4 RSA's are not easily weight-adjustable (yet, but there isn't much in the way of an advantage), so the remainder of my statement was referring to the Gen3 springs, used in either Gen. This is important to folks with Gen4 G20's that don't like certain ammo the shooter might prefer. The use of an aftermarket Gen3 RSA with the adapter will almost always cure that issue (when properly tuned), but loses the advantage of the progressive Gen4 RSA. My "the Gen's don't compare" comment was referring to the pistols in factory form. Adapting the use of the Gen3 RSA in the Gen4 pistol allows it to behave exactly like a Gen3, in regards to action function."

Gotcha.....I thought that were you were going with that, but wanted to make sure. From my experience, there is really not a comparison when one tries to use the 'adapter' in the G4. Just my personal experience; I'm not a fan of the adapter use.

I don't disagree. The Gen4 pistols run fine with a Gen3 RSA, but like I said, it will lose the advantage of the Gen4 RSA. If you aren't having specific issues with the Gen4 pistol, it is a poor choice to use a Gen3 RSA. This only applies to the G20. The G40's seem to have a more generous appetite for ammo variety, due to the slide/barrel mass I'm certain. They could be used in the G40, but I haven't seen a need for it, yet.

Just a note about the adapters....
When used according to recommendation, the adapter bushing should be installed within the assembly. However, if multiple spring assemblies are intended (if you have a bunch of them around, like me), the bushing can be installed ahead of the RSA. The bushings aren't cheap, and it could save a lot of time (disassembling/reassembling RSA's) when tuning a pistol before a final choice. I do not recommend anyone install them "free" in a carried pistol. They are solid, but there is a possibility of movement, however slight. That's a game stopper that won't stop your game (if you're hunting).

Quote from: Mike D on September 05 2016 05:22:47 PM MDT

Quote from: Captain O on October 19 2015 11:39:28 PM MDT
You'll like the G40, (though the top does not exchange with the G20). You'll find the G40 is the "cat's pajamas" when it comes to working in the field with a semiautomatic pistol. The only thing that could improve the handgun would be a 7" custom Glock barrel with polygonal rifling. this would increase your velocity while making the pistol even more muzzle heavy. This is not altogether negative as it tends to further mitigate recoil, permitting you to quickly return to your target.

Polygonal rifling "squeezes" every bit of velocity from your ammnuition,  increasing range, energy and flattening trajectory.

Enjoy your new Glock. (I'm certain you will).

Why would the G20 to not exchange with the G40? The frames are the same.

Also I've always thought the same thing about polygonal rifling but I chrono'd the exact same loads  from my g42 and my Kahr P380 and the Kahr was faster and I mean quite a bit faster. May have just been a fluke but I checked it twice with the same results.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I don't know what he meant, either.

The frames are only the same within the same generation. The Gen3 frame will not accept a Gen4 slide, be it a G20 or G40, without modification to the frame. The RSA relief in the dust cover for the Gen4 is larger, to accommodate the larger diameter RSA. A Gen3 slide will work on a Gen4 frame, but there will be a gap at the dust cover end.

Quote from: redbaron007 on September 06 2016 12:51:43 PM MDT

Quote from: DM1906 on September 02 2016 10:10:50 AM MDT
Unless you are using Gen3 springs in a Gen4 pistol, the Gen's don't compare. Using a 24# spring is a stretch. The factory RSA is only 17#. A true 20# spring is usually all that's needed for maximum loads, while still able to reliably cycle light loads. If you upgrade the RSA, shoot a mag or two of .40SW. If they all cycle, then it will cycle all the 10mm offerings. If you use a 24# spring and it cycles "light" loads or .40's, it isn't a 24# spring. A true 22# spring won't reliably cycle lightweights. This personally verified with thousands of rounds and weight-measured RSA's, 14-26# evens. 24-26# springs are essentially useless for 10mm (but handy for .40/.45S and .460R).

I may be missing something here, but a G3 spring is not interchangeable with a G4; G3 are a single spring, G4 is a dual spring configuration. Otherwise, don't disagree.

This is correct.

However, aftermarket Gen3 springs can be used in Gen4 pistols, but an adapter is required (a simple bushing). The Gen4 RSA's are not easily weight-adjustable (yet, but there isn't much in the way of an advantage), so the remainder of my statement was referring to the Gen3 springs, used in either Gen. This is important to folks with Gen4 G20's that don't like certain ammo the shooter might prefer. The use of an aftermarket Gen3 RSA with the adapter will almost always cure that issue (when properly tuned), but loses the advantage of the progressive Gen4 RSA. My "the Gen's don't compare" comment was referring to the pistols in factory form. Adapting the use of the Gen3 RSA in the Gen4 pistol allows it to behave exactly like a Gen3, in regards to action function.

Quote from: sstewart on September 04 2016 03:05:26 PM MDT

Quote from: MOFun on September 04 2016 07:36:19 AM MDT
First post on this forum. 
I know it's an old thread, BUT...
I was unsure of the frame size of the 40/41 MOS's. Was it new or not?  This info about frame/slide swap fitting seems extremely obscure for the new MOS models (to me).  So, Thank you members of 10mm-firearms! Now that I know, my next purchase will be the G40 MOS.  One question, any (potential) extraction issues going from 10mm to .45 with just a conversion barrel swap?or vice versa just for knowledge.

Frame is the same.
There is NO 10mm to 45 conversion barrel (only 45 to 10mm) so yes extractor issue
You need complete 45 slide & barrel


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Correct. .45 -> 10mm = OK. 10mm -> .45 = No.

The (only) reason is the slide. The difference between the slides is the breach channel width (and FP safety, which is not an issue). They accommodate the case head width, which makes the 10mm slide too narrow to accommodate a .45. The Glock barrel hoods, OEM or aftermarket, are machined to fit their respective slides. The .45 barrel will install and "look" fine, until the action is closed (and it won't). The external dimensions of the barrels are otherwise identical. The 10mm slides can be milled, of course, but it's less than practical.

When converting a .45 to 10mm with only a barrel swap, there is no issue with the extractor, as long as it's LCI. Non LCI extractors should be upgraded, or there will be issues. It's no more complicated than that.

As far as crossing the generations goes, it is also simple. All Gen 3 slides fit Gen 4 frames (20, 21, 40, 41). None of the Gen 4 slides fit Gen 3 frames. The difference is ONLY the diameter of the RSA, and the accommodations for it. The Gen 3 frame can be modified to accommodate a Gen 4 slide by increasing the radius of the RSA relief in the dust cover. Gen 4 frames (and modified Gen 3), will then have a greater gap when used with Gen 3 slides (although there is no functional loss).

9.6 gr. BD is barely a starting load for almost any 180 gr. lead bullet. If the brass is creasing with that load, the brass is junk. I wouldn't reload it.

Wow. How deep is that groove? Is your 225 JSP a tangent or secant ogive? If secant, you may have to choose one or the other, as the JSP won't likely ever normalize if you correct for the thumpers. Maybe if it's tangent. What's your COAL and pull length? Are you committed to the 225 JSP? There may be much better options available to maintain the versatility.

Unless you are using Gen3 springs in a Gen4 pistol, the Gen's don't compare. Using a 24# spring is a stretch. The factory RSA is only 17#. A true 20# spring is usually all that's needed for maximum loads, while still able to reliably cycle light loads. If you upgrade the RSA, shoot a mag or two of .40SW. If they all cycle, then it will cycle all the 10mm offerings. If you use a 24# spring and it cycles "light" loads or .40's, it isn't a 24# spring. A true 22# spring won't reliably cycle lightweights. This personally verified with thousands of rounds and weight-measured RSA's, 14-26# evens. 24-26# springs are essentially useless for 10mm (but handy for .40/.45S and .460R).

No doubt. None better and not surprising. I've been shopping them since about 1980 or so. Paper catalogs, order sheets and a postage stamp, or a phone call (expensive long distance, at the time), was the only way to get their stuff. Shipping charges have always bit me, and I hated it (except when it's free, which is rare). However, the "free" or cheap shipping and piss-poor packaging of others isn't really free. I try to avoid ordering heavy items from some of them, even if they are irresistibly cheaper. It never failed, order bulk bullets from Cabela's, and I get a busted box and maybe all the contents. They handled it well, but they shouldn't have had to. Frustrating! Any damage issues I've had with Midway orders was the shipper, usually UPS.