Quote from: sqlbullet on September 13 2012 08:50:13 AM MDT
Goldbead, I have to offer a counterpoint to your comments. Your experience with Witness guns must be very different from many other owners.

Mags don't get broken down that often.  Maybe once a year to run a brush through them.  I would guess those little plastic tabs would last about 200 years at that rate.  And...the tabs are a secondary retention system on the magazine.  The base pad also has the normal tab/hole primary system like the Witness mags.

I get you don't like Glocks.  That is fine.  But, to extrapolate that the mags will have a limited life is not really supported by the data to which I have access.  And if you take the red follower Witness mags into account then the Glock factory mags over the last 5 years are far better than the Witness mags.

PS/off topic

For the record, If I am a fanboy, I am a 1911 fanboy, not a glock fanboy.  I have owned two Glocks in my life, and only own one right now.  It is only my carry gun when my 1911's are to big/heavy for the attire.  I don't really like Glocks personally either.  But it is just a personal preference.

I also have two EAA Witness's in 10mm.  A full size and a Match.  And both have run the last 2000-3000 rounds without a hiccup in my hands, except for 1 known limitation of the full-size (doesn't like 200 grain + bullets at full power).

The Elite series of guns I highly recommend to anyone looking for a steel high capacity 10mm.  My Match has been reliable from day one.

But, my full-size did not run well from day one.  Around 300 rounds it settled in has been great since then, excepting the above ammo.  I don't know if that was break-in finally catching up, or if the wolff +10% mag springs made the difference.

I don't recommend standard full-size Witnesses in 10mm to people without the caveat....Mine needed time and or tinkering to settle in.  Many have experienced cracked slides.  The frames on both mine are cracked behind the mag release, which is a non-critical area and doesn't bother me, but would bother some.

My Glock on the other hand is dead nuts reliable.  Any ammo, anytime...Just runs.  The only complaint I have with a Glock is I kinda like to tinker and it gives me very little reason to do so.  No thumb safety or hammer to fiddle with when dry-firing.  No reason to mess with springs or triggers or whatever.

Just a different point of view.

Very well put 

Quote from: GoldBead on September 13 2012 07:17:46 AM MDT
Another reason I continue to carry and shoot weapons made of real metal. I would imagine that the magazines have a very limited life.
I mean, how many times can you "snap" the baseplate over the rails before you start to break them down, chip edges, etc. Buy a Witness 10mm
and enjoy for a lifetime. Add a Aluminum baseplate from Hennings which will never fail or snap or unload at the wrong time.

Glocks are "wrong" on so many levels.

You my friend, are wrong on so many levels. My glock 20, and everyone else's, will hold up better and longer than any other 10mm you have, or anyone else has. If you dont believe this, I challenge you to a one day, 2500 round shooting test with real "original Norma" (thats 200gr at 1200 fps or better) loadings. The Glock will leave the Witness crying!

You dont have to like Glocks, thats ok, because i dont like the Witness very much myself. Nothing against it, just personal preference. But please dont blow smoke. The Glock 20 will take more of a beating and keep on ticking than your Witness.

Nice shooting Grumpy!!!  STI makes a fine gun. Especially in the "Perfect Ten"! If i had the funds for it i would love to have either it, or the Wilson Combat Hunter. Two of the sharpest 10mm Auto pistols out there IMO.

sweet kill Justin! Thats awesome! Im jealous.

Rick: The conversions work great and are pretty darn accurate too. At least mine was. I steer clear of any .22lr ammo made by Remington. I am not a Remington hater by any means. Have a gun cabinet full of'm. Some are even my favorite guns. But their .22lr ammo that i have used is junk! Its hard to beat the fun factor of a good .22lr pistol, especially when it is your G20!!!!!!

Quote from: sqlbullet on September 28 2012 08:30:14 AM MDT
A 300 fps gain with a 200 grain bullet puts you into the same energy envelope as 223 from a 16" barrel...About 1000-1100 ft-lbs.

Impressive.

Yep, only with a whole nearly twice the size!! Last winter it was my coyote gun deluxe!! We hunt them with dogs, so my shots usually aren't very far. Under 100 yards 99% of the time. Now if i was calling in open country for them, id grab the .223

Redline: Yes, very much so. Thank you. Considering the short distance (under 20 yards) of my shot, now you have me wondering...

Yondering: Love the parachute example. Very well put.

Redline,
  Please explain this to me if you will. I am confused. Farther distance shots will result in slower velocity at the target, correct? How would it penetrate further. I can understand lesser frag because there is less velocity. Im thinking less expansion with less velocity too? Maybe thats why? Less expansion leads to deeper penetration?

I know it isnt a real world (on deer) test, but when i used milk jugs of water at 25, 50, & 100 yards, the 180's had way more penetration than the 135's at all distances. Over twice as much at 25 yards.

Ive been shooting and reloading for years, i am just really trying to understand the "ballistics" side of things. Your info is much appreciated.

Thanks

Turned on the Pursuit Channel just a few minutes ago. The BIG guy with the beard from "Killin N Grillin" was using the MKA in STOCK format for hogs. Using slugs it was extremely successful. First show i have seen it on. Wont be long...

www.mechtechsys.com

Base unit is $350
Quad rail is $100
m4 stock adaptor is $25

This particular set up minus the Leupold, 6 position stock, and bipod was $520 to my door. Worth every penny!!!

Well i started out with a Gen 2 Glock 20 with a 6" Lone Wolf barrel. I also reduced the trigger pull, take up, and reset to my personal liking. Dropped in a SS rod and 20# spring. It is topped with XS night sights.  I still have this and always take it with me as a side arm when i have the shotty.

But now i will be using this:


cant wait!!! Nov. 15th is just around the corner!!!

I have had mine for a while now. LOVE it! At first i wasnt sure about the plastic "toyish" feel. But after a box of ammo i was sold. 500 rounds later and a few customizations, it is my go to tactical "type" shotty!!! Also Tromix and Firebird have made MANY after-market parts for it.

It is my personal opinion this will, in time, catch on with consumers and competition shooters just as much if not more than the Saiga.

And before anyone starts feuding over which is better.... I own BOTH and they are both sweet rigs! But i must say i prefer the MKA personally.

Who is to say the fragnastiness of the 135gr isn't what partly made it so effective in this instance?  What could a 180gr have done any better?  It's like Michigun Hunter said;  "Drop dead is drop dead where i come from. No matter hole/bullet size/weight."  I don't see that that can be argued.

Very well possible. Id say the transfer of all that energy at such a close range is what did it myself... I can tell you one thing, after seeing the aftermath, they will be my personal carry ammo of choice.

And why does the fragmentation of a 135 grain bullet that accomplished a spectacular kill automatically relegate going to 180 grain bullets?  Do we not also have well constructed bullets in the 155-165 grain weight class?  We're talking about Whitetail Deer here, not the bears of Kodiak Island.

I wouldn't hesitate to use them (135gr) again honestly if it was all i had. The main reason is i am looking for better penetration. Especially on a longer shot. Also they (180gr) are SUPER accurate out of my MechTech and Glock 20. Plus i just like playing and making up loads for my 10mms.


Thanks again for sharing the spectacular results Michigun Hunter!

As always, happy to report!

[/quote]

hadn't seen that video before today. interesting... thanks for sharing Shadow

I have thought long and hard about this. I would like to see what the "competition" is all about. I love to get out and shoot and make new buddies. It sounds like HELLA FUN. Obviously i have seen different forms of it on television and read oodles of information about it. But what about in the Southern Michigan(Ann Arbor, Jackson, Lansing) area? Are there events or clubs anyone can share info on? Anyone have a good lead?

Thanks
Nate

When i was PMed on another forum and asked my thoughts on the MechTech this is how i answered:

"I always tell people this to start. If Mech Tech were to advertise(because i have never seen or heard of one) AND start producing these units for other "popular" make and models of pistols, i am a firm believer they would sell like hot cakes. Especially with the current AR craze in the last couple years.

Since i have bought mine, over a half dozen of the guys i run with have also. That alone should say something. I even got my wife one in .40sw. And yes i have, along with others, and on an extremely calm day with a VERY good rest shot sub 4" groups at 150 yards. And no ******** when i say four leaf clover at 100 yards. Same hole all day at 50.

Good- ill give you the important ones or i could go on for hours. RELIABLE, ACCURATE, FUN, Built like a tank, easy to operate/disassemble...



Bad- If i had to truly say anything that would maybe even fall into this category it would be this:

somewhat kind of heavy. At least more than i had expected. But still less than my Remington 870 12ga.

and most importantly, KEEP IT CLEAN!!!!!! I and many other have found that your groups will start opening up around 75-100 shots after a fresh cleaning. And not bad either, Im talking maybe 3-4" groups at 100. Plenty good for anything i ask of the little carbine. So far every one that i have seen is this way. Simply run a BORESNAKE through it and good to go.


Oh and you better get lots of ammo. You will need it!   And dont lose the little "Glock Block". order an extra. Trust me!

sorry no vids."


Nate