Quote from: Muskrat on February 20 2020 09:06:43 PM MST
Ya...makes sense. What you're doing is often cited as a way to turn a USPSA Major load into a USPSA Minor load without having to re-tool the loading press. So under most circumstances it should yield lower pressures and less bulging.

That said, 7 grains of Unique under a 180 grain bullet is a really mellow load. I'd be amazed if you were getting bulging of any consequence with that combo. If you are you might want to look at some other factors...COL maybe?

I've wondered about this too but I load everything the same for pistol/banshee per book specs. My press is never perfect from round to round however 1.250 to 1.260 will chamber in literally "everything" chambered for 10mm so that's where I set COL on everything I load. And 7gr of Unique isn't mellow by my chrono. Out of my XDM 5.25, 7.0 gr of Unique with 1.250-1.260 COL was pushing 180 gr slugs to 1,200+ fps....

I've loaded with AA#9 13.5 gr "same COL", Longshit 7.5 gr "same COL", and obviously Unique with same results as far as bulges go. Think I might buy the 8oz buffer and say to hell with it. I've done the power factor math and i'm knocking on the door 180gr x 1200 fps divided by 1,000 to technically use the 8 oz buffer according to the math that 22 plinkster said on youboob.

Ummmm yeah, John McCain was a war mongering piece of shit. Agree with Mike. He is NOT the person the communist news network paints him as. I am all for my rights. I mean this page is about guns for gods sake. If Kunt-Allah Harris and Biden get elected, this page might as well be renamed 10mm-Firearms.com remembrance page as in "remember when we could go shoot guns and talk about reloading and whatnot"....

Trump is a douche. BUT he isn't a politician. He's a businessman which this country is a business. Money in and Money out. I'm 46 and since I've been alive, the Dem party has shit on Union's and Union workers. I'm a Union employee. Naturally I should be a Demoncrap and vote as such correct? Sorry but not sorry. Anymore your voting for the lesser of two evils and I'll vote for Trump EVERY day of the week and twice on Sunday's having the peace of mind my 2A right's aren't going to be flushed down the shitter if that blubbering retard Biden gets elected. The lines are so blurred between what Demoncrap's and Rupublicunt's traditionally stand for that not even Superman could decipher them with x-ray vision.

Just went and bought another AR pistol yesterday. Just in case ya know while I still can and without to much hassle. Of course with the ATF screwing with tactical braces now I wouldn't want to just be a 1 time felon but a two time felon since this Stag Arms has a SB Tactical brace as well. Go big or go home I say. Wife isn't happy of course but I told her if she didn't eat like she had two buttholes, we'd have A LOT more money for me to buy guns with. I'm making decent money on the side reloading 9mm for people right now since I had so much 9mm crap laying around and I've sold all my 9mm's cause it's just such a weak ass round. Now I'm texting this from a hotel room as I'm not welcome at home right now.... Me and my big mouth.

THIS is the best brass catcher around. Trust me I have 3 of them on my AR's and Banshee. The mesh doesn't melt and its adjustable fore and aft for scope mounting. Plus the name cracks me up because I call it the "gloryhole"....

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07XH1VYD6/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Glad to see the debate on this thread is still going lol. I went out and shot a shit ton of 10mm this last weekend with my kids. PPU "which hasn't been mentioned in this thread" makes 10mm brass and it's not that great. Jageman brass seems to hold up better than most of the other's. I think Starline brass has kinda gone poo-poo with their metalurgy. It's just not very structurally sound unless i'm just getting unlucky shitty batches over and over....

Quote from: BENTENMM on February 17 2020 06:25:43 PM MST
I looked into the HTA Hi-Point setup but was concerned about gas blowback in a bullpup being a lefty.. Looks rad though and for $500 total can't be beat. As for mags any .45 aftermarket mag and drum can be made to work with a little feed lip tweaking.. the double stack to single stack/feed is hi-points downfall.. But then again HTA said they would address this with a proprietary magazine if they sold enough stocks.

Ronin if you don't mind me asking whats your HP/HTA setup weigh?

Ok so I went to the HTA site and I see nothing about the bull pup stock for 10mm or did you buy the stock for the .45 ACP?

Quote from: Muskrat on February 26 2020 06:54:59 PM MST
Ran a few hundred rounds through the Banshee with the 8oz buffer. It definitely slows the carrier down, but everything ran fine...even powder-puff loads (165 grains @ 1200 fps).

No idea how it affects brass bulging. I got a lot of bulging with A-USA brass, but none with S&B brass shooting 200 grains @ 1200 fps.

I'm telling ya that S&B brass is some stout stuff. Order a 100 round bag or 2 of Jaggemann brass stuff to before corona virus shuts down the country!

Quote from: Muskrat on February 25 2020 12:07:42 PM MST
I don't know if the heavier buffer will affect bulging or not.

It's recommended for loads making 230 PF and above...Underwood, hot Federal offerings, and of course, some reloads.

Loads that make 230 PF are:
165 grains @ 1393 fps
180 grains @ 1277 fps
200 grains @ 1150 fps
220 grains @ 1045 fps

My understanding is that the goal is to increase functional reliability, not to save the brass. I think some of that brass goes in the garbage at the low end, and at the hight end all of it gets thrown away. Underwood 200 grain bullets make 250 PF and the 220 grain bullets make 264 PF, so even with a heavy buffer I don't think the brass is salvageable from the Banshee.

Obviously reduced loads are not going to bulge brass with the regularity of stout offerings, and they even include a reduced weight buffer for people who want to tone it down to .40 S&W levels. I'll be interested to hear what your experiences are with the 165 grain bullets. I shoot a lot of them in my .40 for USPSA, but I haven't loaded any in the 10mm.

Yeah I guess I need to stop thinking about saving brass and focus on fun and reliability. I'll shoot my 1911 more. I know I can save brass from that being fully supported. It's just that damn banshee is sooooo fun to shoot. Oh well. Yeah I'm gonna chronograph these all tomm or Friday but check out jaggeman brass in the meantime. Just from holding it in my hands and looking at this stuff it's friggin stout. It's same price as new starline brass. Wish I had bought some of this sooner cause the case walls and everything are way thicker. Might be able to actually load some nuclear loads with this brass. Later buddy!

Quote from: Muskrat on February 25 2020 08:47:11 AM MST
That buffer has a maximum weigh of 5.3 ounces, while the heavy Banshee buffer is 8 ounces. The devil's in the details...

Damn, well.... so that heavy buffer is supposed to be for high power factors OR if you run suppressed which I never plan on doing. Hmmm I'm wondering if that would alleviate the bulging brass issue. My thought process is with it being forced to push a heavier buffer back that pressure has to go somewhere besides out the barrel and a heavier buffer would actually make brass bulges worse. That's why I'm going down to 165gr bullets. By the way all my Jaggeman brass arrived today. I can tell you this, as I'm running it thru my resizer die before I start loading it up, this stuff is very stout and thick. Working all day in my shop and hopefully can shoot some of this new brass/bullet combo tomm. Will report my findings if I don't blow myself up or catch corona virus between now and then 😉   

Quote from: Muskrat on February 22 2020 06:22:05 PM MST
Ran a hundred 200 grain BB under 11 grains of AA#9 through the Banshee today.

Got four or five bulges from multi-loaded A-USA brass (garbage brass in my experience), but the rest were fine. I was actually considering culling all my A-USA brass a while ago, but I recon I'll keep using it for target loads and culling it as it bulges in the Banshee.

Some of that brass probably has ten or twelve loads through it, so I'd call it worn brass. Actually glad for the excuse to throw some of it away.

That Banshee rock n' rolls like a vintage jukebox...just damn fun. And accurate. And reliable.

I broke down and ordered the 8oz buffer from CMMG at the ridiculous price of $59. There are cheaper 8oz buffers out there, but they are all too long to work in the Banshee. I might have been able to disassemble and weight the light buffer that came with the gun, but the time and effort didn't seem to justify the savings. Don't need the heavy buffer for my normal shooting loads, but my field loads are Underwood 200 or 220 hard-cast, and I'm not keen to batter my gun for the cost of a dinner and beers at the local brew pub.

Ben: The SMG magazine has proven to be very reliable and of high quality. No idea how it works with long loads, as I just load to book lengths.

Check this out! Send that cmmg crap back and get this! Should work in ANY AR style platform!! This is one of the cooler things I've seen in awhile. I know other companies have made similar stuff but not this easy to change out weights or this nice....

https://youtu.be/RbNYm0g77qY

What I meant is ALL my practice ammo is 180gr. So I figure I'd try to move down to 165 gr. Keep the same load data as in powder Unique, AA#9 etc but going from 180gr to 165gr bullets might help alleviate bulging. Just a thought. It may not work but I'm kinda dumb so who knows? I figure less mass moving thru the barrel equals less pressure on the case. It may not work but it's what we all do as reloaders is experiment. That's half the fun. Generally as you go lighter in bullet weights you can increase your powder charge. But I'm going to keep the same powder charge but go to a lighter bullet. See if it helps the bulging/swelling on the brass yet maintain accuracy. If not then I'll back off my powder charge or go to a lighter bullet weight. Not sure yet. Clear as mud now?

yep just went to evergladesammo.com and ordered 500 of their 165 jhp's for $75 free shipping. Why not? My carry ammo for my pistols is 165gr anyways so it'll get shot either way. I figure keep the same grains of powder "Unique 7.0 grains" for these as what I loaded my 180gr bullets to will increase velocity obviously but not increase pressure, If anything it'll go down a few thousand pounds. Just wonder if changing out the buffer will also help?

Found this on another forum from a guy having the exact same issue's as we are. This is copied exactly from the email CMMG sent to the guy. Enjoy the B.S. ALSO as a note I got ahold of CMMG tech support and physically talked to a guy this very morning 0800 PST and he said brass thickness is the big part of it. He said they reload there and shoot everything thru their guns before they leave and they have found that Hornady brass holds up the best even with nuclear loads. They get an average of 3-4 reloadings with Hornady brass before its bulged to bad so I guess I'm getting Hornady brass and see how that works. I hate Hornady brass for my rifles but maybe for 10mm it's better so hopefully this helps everyone. I asked him if going to a lighter load say 135 gr would alleviate this and maybe a lighter buffer and he said no. Honestly I don't see how it wouldn't fix the issue by going lighter bullet/less powder but he said nope. Just get Hornady brass......Peace!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Customer,

I am sorry this response has taken so long, but I wanted to ensure due diligence when it comes to the safety of our customers. I personally coordinated testing and validation with CMMG's Product Design Engineers when we received several customers who were concerned with what appears to be 10mm cases bulging. CMMG, Inc. take this very seriously as we had not experienced true case bulging in any of our durability or function testing prior to releasing this firearm. I do want to assure you that the results of the additional testing concern that your Mk10 firearm is safe and reliable. We removed the barrel in question off of your Mk10 and replaced with a new barrel when it arrived. We did our testing using a CMMG owned lower and multiple barrels from different batches. Our initial testing pre-launch focused on big name manufacturers of 10mm ammunition (Winchester, Federal, S&B, Sig, Hornady, etc.) who had offerings in the most common grains, specifically 180gr and 200gr. With this new testing we ordered new lots of ammo from the original test ammo manufacturers and over 20 different types of ammunition from smaller manufacturers, and in offerings outside of the 180gr & 200gr. We created the statement below based on that testing. What you were seeing on the casing was not bulging, but case swell. Bulging would be where the casing grows in length and the material thins in an area, which typically leads to a ruptured case. Case swelling is what happens to all ammunition when it is fired and it forms to the chamber. Due to the design of the 10mm casing many of the cases appear to be bulging due to the brass filling our chamber lead. With our Radial Delayed Blowback (RDB) our bolt is locked into place when the round is fired and the delayed unlocking ensures safe operation. When the brass is manufactured correctly and the loads are not pushes to the hot side, then this case swell into the chamber lead does not appear.

As I stated above, your firearm has been verified as safe. Choosing a US manufacturer of ammunition in the 1,050 1,275fps will minimize the case swelling on the Mk10 10mm. We had concerns about very hot offerings in 10mm from hand loaders and some smaller but reputable manufacturers. The casings we were provided were a mixture of DoubleTap and Sig Sauer. We were not able to replicate the case swelling to match the spent cases provided. If these were reloads, that could account for the amount of swelling. We are including some of our spent cases with the firearm. When the casing is unchanged, but is used to contain 10mm rounds pushing 1,300fps or greater, then our firearm is still safe. The safety comes from being built around the AR platform barrel, barrel extension, bolt, and RDB delayed unlocking. Unfortunately, bad things happen to casings when anyone chooses to push ammunition beyond the design intent of the casing.

CMMG, Inc. Statement:

CMMG recognizes that the chamber lead and chamber in the Mk10 result in a less than 100% fully supported casing. Handguns do not have the same lead or chamber design due to the short distance and the way the round chambers with the barrels tipping/moving to assist, yet many 10mm handguns have unsupported cases also. The Mk10 chamber and lead were designed in a way to provide the most reliable feeding behavior while maintaining safe operation with properly loaded 10mm ammunition. The chamber and leads used to manufacture the Mk10 are similar to those we use on the 9mm, 40S&W, and .45ACP. With these calibers we do not see any bulging with any factory offerings of +P or below ammunition. Unfortunately, 10mm was designed in a way that pressures generated by max loads cannot be well contained in an unsupported chamber, resulting in case swelling and the inability to reload cases with certain combinations. Not every 10mm case is the same. SAAMI only defines the external dimensions of cases, which leads to varying wall thicknesses and strength. We've measured as much as a 25% difference in wall thickness between manufacturers.

CMMG has fired tens of thousands of rounds through our Mk10 platform durability testing and found no safety concerns from the case swelling. During our function and reliability testing, which tests feeding, extraction, ejection, and durability, we tested a wide variety of ammunition. We found that when the Power Factor > 230, using 180gr bullets, the greater the likelihood the casing will show visible signs of "bulging". CMMG concluded that the firearm was still safe, as it is designed to function and contain the pressures of properly loaded 10mm ammunition safely. CMMG does not recommend continuing to shoot ammunition that shows multiple signs of overpressure. If you are seeing extreme case swelling and any other common sign of overpressure, such as ejector swipes, blown primers, split cases, etc., discontinue using that ammunition and test another load or brand. CMMG stands behinds its products and is confident in our design of safe and functional firearms. In this case, we have found the inherent design of the 10mm cartridge produces some tradeoffs when it comes to the ability to reuse and reload cases. Once again, we would like to thank you for your business and hopefully this brief explanation might help you better understand our position on this particular situation.

Thank you for your understanding and patience in this matter. We took this claim very seriously and only had the safety of our customers at heart. Have a terrific New Year and a blessed day.

Yep just picked up my banshee last week and finally had time to go shoot it yesterday. Sonofabitch if i didn't get home and start to deprime/resize brass and literally had to pull my brass out of resizer die with channel locks. i'm like WTF. So I continue to resize/deprime and about every 5 rounds or so same problem. I remember reading on a guys video on the banshee on youboob a guy in the comment section was saying about 6 months back this was an issue however another guy replied cmmg had fixed this. One guy said his wouldn't work at all and sent it in and cmmg said they screwed up and put a .40 bolt in his by mistake.

Anyways, i'm wondering if changing out the bolt, buffer, spring or SOMETHING would alleviate this issue and I already spent $1,200 on this thing. It shoots great, accurate as hell. I already spend a lot on shooting and reloading to my wife's chagrin. It pisses me off to no end that cmmg wouldn't mention something like this. I guess they figure a guy who can spend $1,200 on a gun can spend money on endless amounts of factory ammo and doesn't reload anything so who cares?

On this subject, what is the best brass besides Starline? I have used a ton of S&B brass and it holds up really well to multiple reloads. Strangely enough, NONE of the S&B brass bulged yesterday ONLY the Starline. Anyone ever use Jagemann brass? From what i've seen Jagemann brass is built pretty stout. It seems like S&B quality. I'd buy S&B brass but they only sell it fully factory loaded. Winchester brass sucks for reloading and now Starline seems to be weak sauce but I guess spending $16 for a box of 50 rounds to not only shoot but then save the brass to reload is more economical than paying $20+ for a bag of 100 rounds of brass that I have to prime and put powder and a bullet in.... I've heard quality control at Starline has gone downhill which sucks however i've never had a bulge issue with any of my regular pistol's/1911's with Starline brass....The only problem with S&B brass is the primer pockets are so friggin tight the first couple of reloads when re-primering them. I'm not loading these super hot either. 7 grains of Unique. I did shoot some 7.5 gr Unique's also but it was S&B brass and none of those bulged. Could it be a burn rate thing? Maybe switch powders and spend countless hours working up loads? Ugh this suuuucks...

Lastly, am I going to need to buy a bulge buster die as someone mentioned above if I want to get more reloadings out of my Starline brass or would that even work?

13.5gr aa#9 yields 1 1/2 inch groups for me at 20 yards. what's weird is it's damn near the same from my sig sauer emperor scorpion and my xdm 5.25. chrono'd at around 1250-ish fps and i'm using starline brass, cci300 primers, 180gr armscor or Winchester truncated flat point slugs. COL 1.255-1.260 "whatever my rcbs decides to seat my bullet depth to that particular round". 13.0gr was fairly accurate as well and when I bumped it up to 14.0gr they started spreading out pretty bad.

I was using Unique "off the subject of Longshot". Older load data said 7.8gr was max charge. I loaded a ton up with 7.5gr and my chrono said they were between 1380 and 1410 fps out of the XDM 10 with 5.25 inch barrel. Brass and primers were surprisingly good looking. It was a hot day and I figured my chrono was messed up from the heat. Went back next day and shot 50 more before it got above 80 degrees and same thing. 1350 fps to 1400.

I've since backed off to 7.0 gr even chrono'd them today and was a paltry 1100-ish fps. very manageable very low recoil out of my new sig sauer emperor scorpion. guess that'll be my new range load. as a note, the 7.5gr barn burners were grouping less than 2 inches at 20 yards. really accurate load for as hot as it is. I can't get longshot to shoot very well using either CCI or Federal primers. tried remington, had one blow up as I was hand priming the cases so i'll never use them again.

i've seen people say use magnum primers but I don't really want to waste time refiguring out load data and all the time back and forth to the range going up .3 gr increments to get an accurate load. ill mainly load the longshot for 200gr cast bullets for wood's protection from bears, pregnant yak's etc etc..

I'm sure some of you have seen or heard of this website but in case you haven't, here ya go!

https://ammoseek.com/

AAAAMAZING website. I'm sure you can all figure out how to navigate it but it literally tracks everything right up to the second across the entire country for the cheapest prices on literally everything reloading. If Cabella's is having a sale on something as an example or another retailer that you normally wouldn't know about, this website will find it for you. What's cool is it also brings business to companies that normally would never get business as people don't even know they exist. I've saved a crap ton of money by using this place. Hope this helps some of my fellow reloader's out!

Cheers!