Quote from: agtman on February 27 2022 10:01:52 AM MST
Man-oh-man, how I wish IMI or Magnum Research would offer a Desert Eagle in 10mm Magnum.
...

I wish they'd offer one in 45 Win Mag, but the one person I talked to, who I do believe was from the company, said it was super unlikely to ever happen.  I really like 45 Win Mag and it at least was a lot cheaper to shoot than some of the other cartridges they chamber the DE in.  It isn't breaking my heart, though.

I certainly can't speak from experience or even 2nd-hand hearsay, but for me personally, if I was concerned enough about an animal that I felt compelled to shoot it and had to use a handgun, I'd want it to be a 44 Mag. That's just me.  I've seen a 600 lb black bear--my estimate is 350 lb is the max I've encountered, and while it appeared to be in a fairly good mood, if there had been cubs nearby I'd feel rather undergunned with a 10.  Lucky me, I've never been taken by surprise...yet.

I've got 3 polymer and 3 steel semi-autos and have not yet found the 'perfect' one for carry. While 10mm is probably my favorite semi-auto caliber, I would say it's challenging to find what's just right in the hand--far more so than, say, 45 Auto. Of the 6, only one I don't care if I ever shoot again and would prefer not to and will sell or trade for primers . The rest all have enough redeeming qualities to make it not worth my effort to sell. I think I will need to get just one or two more to hit the sweet spot of a more-compact semi-auto in 10. I will always long for that special 10xx Smith, though.

So, I understand, from that perspective at least, that it's an ongoing journey.

I would buy the M&P, but I have the EAA Witness Hunter, and I don't have the M&P 10 yet. If I were recommending the most comfortable-to-shoot, accurate 10mm handgun that I personally own and know, it would be the Witness Hunter.  Recently took it to the range along with my XP Elite in 10, and there is just no comparison in terms of my ability to shoot the two with good results.  The XP is 'just okay', not all that comfy to shoot (but beats the G20 by a long sea mile), and slippery in the hand. The witness is the best grip feel of all 10s I own, by a very, very wide margin.  But, I don't know it it's even remotely comparable to the Witness choice you offered up as an option.

I don't know and haven't heard any rumors, but I do hope so.  My 45c is by far my most comfortable, 'smaller', pleasure-to-shoot handgun I own, and the one I'm able to shoot the fastest with accuracy. I wouldn't expect things to go so well with a 10c, as far as speed and accuracy, but I'd expect the feel to be similar. I doubt I'll wait to find out though, as I expect to get the shorter M&P 10 within a few months now.

I have a G20 (Gen 3 I guess), an EAA Witness Hunter (6") and and XDM in the 5" size. I shoot only handloads so my experiences may be due as much to handloads not being appropriate for the gun as anything.  The G20 is by far my least favorite, and in fact I'll likely give it away to the first person I meet who says they 'like it'. The EAA Witness has been far more reliable, but this is an all-steel gun that's nothing like what you're after--but as a brand (Tanfoglio of course), if the quality, fit and finish is representative of their other products, I wouldn't hesitate to get a polymer model if I needed another one.

The XDM, so far, is my number one choice for what I consider a 'full size'.  It's by no means an ideal fit, but the performance has been flawless so far (but, not even 1,000 rds thru it, so a bit early to go all crazy with enthusiasm).

I think if I lived where Glocks were plentiful and the dominant thing available, I'd likely go that way.  I've never had any issue with my G29, which has been my primary carry for many years. The G20 and I will simply never get along, but your experience could be totally different--I think the experience of most shooters is far more positive.  For me, the G20 isn't even remotely carryable--as a hunting backup or for any other purpose. BUT, consider that, if you can find a comfortable and accessible way to carry it, a full-size package is probably something you can more reliably get a hold of and present on target than a little pop gun.

Of course, you asked "of these options" and someone always suggests something that isn't listed as an option--in that tradition, let me just throw "357 revolver" out there. There, I've done it.

What read somewhere from somebody, that may or may not be true, is that the return to 9mm from 40SW in law enforcement is simply a matter of cost. Again, this may be conjecture—as I doubt too many folks know the facts on the topic across the spectrum of 'law enforcement', and I doubt the reasons for the move are the same for all cities/departments.

The assertion does make sense, to me, as I can see cost is far more important than any arguments regarding effectiveness. But, given no military and police units will EVER be buying 10mm, Smith may find it contradictory to their marketing strategy to offer an "M&P" in a caliber that will never be sold to m&p. That's fine, call it something else, or just be okay with selling more M&P products to civilians than you sell to M&P.

I did say I've got no shortage of 10mm pistols. But, I DO have a shortage of them that feel like they were made for any human hand. An M&P would fill that void.

Welcome and a hearty congratulations on the 1911 in 10. I've only fired one Kimber, a commander style in 45 as I recall. It did full justice to the platform and was a pleasure. So, I've got this feeling you did real good and more than a feeling you're going to just love the round.

Quote from: gnappi on June 15 2020 03:00:53 PM MDT
Roguer, I will give a +1 on Tanfoglio.

I'm a big fan (and have been since the early/mid 90's) of Tanfo pistols starting with my compact 10mm. I carried and shot that little fire breather for many years and it's still churning along.

When you say the 'compact' are you talking the all-steel compact? Did you find it challenging to carry?  I'm looking from time to time at the various 10mm Witness pistols: the steel compact, the polymer carry, and the 4.5" steel models--and man, I'm having a hard time deciding for an EDC.  I'm thinking the 4.5" all steel is just going to be too much.  I know each has their own acceptable limits--the G29 is what I've carried now for several years and it's okay--but I tend not to practice with it very often because I actually need my right index finger intact.

Quote from: sstewart on June 14 2020 01:14:33 PM MDT
There you go being logical.
I see Sig doing a  10mm 320 before S&W does a 10mm M&P.

Yeah I'd have to go with that prediction, too.  The situation isn't a dire one, though--I find I now have far more 10mm shooting options than I can find time to shoot (or to handload), so at this point I sure can't complain.  I really could use a compact double stack alternative to the G29, though, and I think my 10mm needs would be complete.

The topic certainly comes up from time to time, for sure.  I imagine interests among us vary a lot--I wouldn't be the slightest bit interested in any single stack or 1911 offering, I don't think, but if they could do an M&P 2.0 compact in 10, I'd buy one as soon as possible.  I don't know what the big deal is for them...they can produce those monster wheelguns that must cost a fortune to manufacture--that 5 people want--but not an M&P?  Seems like an attitude problem to me, not a manufacturing/marketing one 

Approximate widths I have are:

G20 (Gen 3) 1.280"
XDm 10 1.266"
RIA M1911 A2 1.370"
Witness Hunter (stock wood grips) 1.380"
M1911 Govt issue 1.260" (for comparison)

These are all about the maximum widths for each.  Interestingly (at least to me), I have medium hands with somewhat short fat fingers, and by far the most comfortable of all the above double stacks would be the Witness Hunter.  By far the least comfortable, the G20, with the RIA a close second-least comfy.

About all I can say is that I've had the long XDm 10 for a while now, but have not shot it much yet...maybe a few hundred rounds so far.  I find it comfortable in the hand and comfortable to shoot, and it has fed the 3 or 4 varieties of loads I've put in it with no trouble--except for some I found I had left seated too long (and too long to feed in anything I own, not just the XDm).  I can't really add much, other than that I find it far easier and faster to take down than my Glocks--which I don't actually find easy to get apart due to my challenges with that dual-side spring loaded release thing.  Now, mind you, I dislike my G20 with a passion, and while I like my G29 far more, am still not a huge fan of the gun.  So, it's probably more useful to you to hear from someone who shares your like of the Glock, than from me, who wouldn't have much heartburn throwing both of mine in the trash...literally.

From an aesthetics perspective, I would prefer the 5.25 have a 1 or 2-round shorter grip, and one that looks and feels more like an M&P. Plus, I felt the need to grind off most of the snow-tire tread on the backstrap of gun.  Deep, sharp grip treads to me aren't comfortable or useful. I work 12 hours a day at a keyboard--my hands don't stand up to aggressive grips well at all and I don't find they actually help me keep a grip on the gun anyway.

I was very excited to discover the XDm was available in 10 and ordered one as soon as I could--never having held or fired any SA product before.  I'm happy I did...but that's just me.  If Smith came out with the M&P in 10 tomorrow, I'd be ordering one by Tuesday.  I like 10.

If I had to choose one single aspect of the RIA Ultra that I like the most, it would be the general 'utility' look.  I grew up with a dad who wouldn't have a civilian firearm other than the shotgun--other than the 870, it was war surplus. I really grew up in a firearm environment where 'pretty' was an FN FAL, and anything prettier than that wasn't too welcome. If it wasn't Parkerized, it wasn't worth having. 'New' meant it still had Cosmoline poured into it somewhere.

So, that's what I love most about this 1911.  Second most is the mass.  I'm not carrying it anywhere, so the heft is nice, and with medium to medium-hot loads...the M1 Abrams of 10mm auto pistols is sweet indeed.

The paisto resisto is the price. It's a real satisfaction knowing I saved enough money over having purchased many other options to buy a complete Dillon reloading outfit...easily. I really prefer to shoot rather than admire a 'fine handcrafted firearm'.  I have two of those 'armchair' guns that I spent too much on and love to wipe with a soft cloth and admire...but that's enough. They're all meant for shooting, and the RIA is begging for the 5,000 rds it needs to feel a part of the family.  No molly-coddling tolerated, and some abuse maybe welcomed. No hard feelings if it starts to show holster scrub--heck it might even look a little better with the grip wrapped in that cloth electricians tape.

It's a favorite, I'm glad you're getting to enjoy yours.

I don' have the Remington, but do have the Hunter and have owned it for maybe 5 or 6 years, I guess.  I think the quality of the manufacture is first-rate--fit and finish are both excellent and maybe second only to my Smith Model 41. It is by far the most comfortable grip of any 10mm I have, but that is limited to the G20 (worst), G29 (second worst), RIA Ultra HC (3rd best), SA Xdm 10 (2nd best).  Those are MY 'worst' and 'best' only, not making a general statement, but a personal preference. I measured the EAA Hunter grip width and I think I came up with it being less than 1/8" wider than a single-stack 1911.  It is NICE.

I would rate the trigger as 'very good' to 'excellent' as far as actually USING the gun...the practical in-use feel. I find it very 'goofy' as far as aesthetics--it looks weird and it wobbles side-to-side--although parts are available to tighten that up, as are replacement triggers.  I have done neither because it's not a 'practical' matter to me...it's only an aesthetic one.  I don't care or the squared shape of the trigger guard, either, but again--aesthetics.  Assuming it's intended to convey the notion of 'roominess' for shooting with a glove--I guess it does that.

It's been at least 3 years since I've had it to the range, but what I remember was that I had to tighten up the rear adjustable sight a couple of times.  A micro-drop of thread locker would have solved this the first time.  I'm too lazy to find my thread locker.

Also putting a lot of faith in my memory, I believe I have had some frustration with having the thumb safety engage enough during shooting to prevent firing the gun (until I reach the thumb up and pull the lever down tight).  It seems that, during recoil, my thumb hits it hard enough to eventually engage it--if not fully engaged to the detent, then engaged far enough to provide an unexpected 'flinch test'.  This may be unique to me--it's definitely not due to wear on anything--I never use the safety at all.

So, overall, for a long slide double stack 10, I'd give it very high marks.  You have to be okay with it being from Italy and not having 'standard' parts, etc. It is interesting that shortly after I bough mine, it seemed they really dried up and saw very few at gb, for example. Now, many years later, it looks like EAA has flooded the system with a wide variety of Witness pistols, and I see a good number of Hunters for sale. As for customer service, I contacted EAA customer service on a minor spring guide issue, and they sent me an entire new spring guide immediately.  This is the only time I've ever contacted a firearm manufacturer's customer service, and wasn't expecting to even get a reply--i felt their response was 'full service' and immediate, with no questions asked, quite literally.

I wish every 10mm double stack handgun would simply copy the Witness grip geometry--for me, at least, there can't possibly be any better a design. That any double stack 10 has to be fatter and less comfy than this one is just a little frustrating...but maybe everyone on the planet doesn't agree with me.  I have statistically medium hands.