Quote from: blackhawk38wcf on September 21 2013 05:11:36 AM MDT
Hi:
I'm CJ and I happened across this site while looking for info on the 10mm Auto.   I'm from Tampa, Florida and currently, I do not have any 10mm type firearms.  However, I am in the process of building one up. I recently purchased a like new Colt Delta Elite Slide.  My plan is to buy a Caspian Arms Recon Race stainless frame and mate the two to become a "Colt-spian" Delta Elite.  I do have new barrel for it from Dan Wesson chambered in 40 S&W but also plan on getting a barrel for 10mm.  Aside from that, I am into anything related to 10mm cartridges, to include the 38 WCF (a.k.a, the 38-40 Winchester), hence my handle, the 40 S&W, 400 Corbon, 10mm auto, of course, and Herters 401 Powermag. In fact, I have about three of these revolvers chambered for this round and I will be getting spare cylinders to have them rechambered for 38-40 and 40 S&W (401 Powermag is a hard round to find). I do have an OM Blackhawk being built up in 38-40 but plan on building it for an additional 40 S&W cylinder.  I am also a fan of the 41 Magnum and have several guns in this caliber, the Dan Wesson 741 being my favorite.  Best regards, CJ, bh38wcf.

Yes, welcome to 10mm-land.  Nice collection of related cartridges.  Never, thank God, thought of building a collection on bullet diameter.  That could get expensive and cramp my safe, severely.  Ever since I obtained a 40S&W built on caspian frames, Kart barrel, etc... and built by Andy Anderson (Bob Marvel associate), I have fallen in love with 40S&W in a 1911 platform.  The recoil is perfectly balanced to allow the power 40S&W has with the recoil that is mild enough for fast followup shots.  Just lovely, in my opinion!  So, I relate to your collection.  I also have a 610 6.5" and a rebuilt Kimber Eclipse in 10mm that lets me know how much power is in this cartridge.  The N frame 610 is a kitten to shoot, it is so heavy.  The Kimber leaves sore spots in 2 places in my hands after a few 100 rounds.

Cheers and look forward to your commentary!

If one is anti-Stand-Your-Ground, then he/she is pro rape, assault, burglary, homicide, etc.  I certainly require anyone to stand their ground, and if you can get away, by all means do so.  But, that is not always the case, especially when you are surprised by an attacker (because you are in condition white mode instead of yellow.)

I am a big Jeff Cooper fan and this short video of his thoughts on self defense matches my core belief:

http://www.jeffcooperbooks.com 

I am surprised it took this long to get people out to vote.  I think Romney would have been president and had the base to win, but a lot of Republicans thought, wrongly, that the last election was going to be a formality and Romney would win by a land-slide, so no need to go vote.  It will be interesting to see what happens in 2016, if people learned their lesson.  Many people who voted for Obama are becoming dissatisfied by his inability to create jobs in the PRIVATE SECTOR, where 70% of the economy creates jobs, added value and under better cost efficiencies.

Glad CO has been able to send a message and make Liberals in congresses think twice about their future agenda endeavors.

We'll see!

Quote from: Zephyr on September 12 2013 07:22:49 PM MDT
Hey Buckeye, welcome aboard!  To answer your question, as to why the 'Mighty 10' isn't widely endorsed stems from a number of factors, and some misconceptions.

Where do I begin?   [1]  First off; it was claimed to be "too powerful" to allow for any fast follow-up shots [nonsense].   Anyone who owns, or shoots the 10 millimeter will readily dispel this myth.

The 'naysayers' also [2] attest to the [fact] it batters gun frames into 'peened submission'.  Firing 'nuclear loads' in a 1911-style pistol, which has not been properly 'set-up' for this purpose will obviously become a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Revolvers can also quickly 'give-up-the-ghost' when fed a diet of constant 'nitro loads'.

[3] Too powerful, in it's original incarnation for 'self-defense'.  The answer:  Is yes and no, depends on the application [this contradiction in terms was the reason the round was first adopted by the FBI (after the Miami shootout), and then; later substituted for the 'weaker' .40 S&W].  Translation:  a very utilitarian round with an extended power range.

  Myth number [4] the caliber has a very limited 'cult-following' [Ted Nugent among other notables.], and very few manufacturers show an interest it.  [Glock has always made pistols in this chambering].  A number of other larger manufacturers have, and still make handguns for it:  AMT, CZ, Kimber, Colt, S&W, EAA, and Rock Island Armory.  I believe, that if Springfield, FN, Steyr, and HK marketed pistols for the 10mm, then the .40 S&W would be the new 'also-ran'. 

Another argument [5] is, that it is a 'handloaders' only affair.  Not true, a lot of ammo concerns make excellent fodder in 10mm.  But to truly wring-out the best ergonomics from the round, then obviously 'rolling-your-own' makes the most sense.

[6] Almost every gun magazine [every month?] features a cover article on the lastest/newest 1911 in .45 ACP, this constantly eclipses any real, positive press about the 10mm.

Plus, [7] I feel that a lot of gunwriters have a natural repugnance towards the caliber.  Which, I really don't understand.  Anyway, that's my short-list of answers to your question.

Nice outline of the 10mm dilemma.  I have some comments:

[1] It IS too powerful for career people who are required to carry a pistol but don't shoot but a few times a year, at best.  But, most guns will be too powerful if you don't shoot it to a point at which you overcome the flinches and master your technique.

[2] I have heard this too, but have no evidence to show this is true.

[3] Over-penetration is always a concern.  But I would like the option to have as powerful a load if the situation might call for it.  I currently favor the 357 magnum strategy: a fast and lighter bullet that will cause a significant shock wave in the body to tear tissue, but not over-penetrate.  I watched a program where an ex-marine shot a military ball 45ACP round into a car with 2 dummies in the front seats.  He shot it facing the driver door at about 20 feet.  the round went through the driver door, through both dummies, and through the passenger door.  Eeek!

[4] Not anymore.  10mm is on the rise!

[5] Manufacturers are making very good rounds these days, and some smaller brands are making really effective loads.  My gunsmith loaded me me some full SAMI spec rounds with 165gr Remington Golden Sabers and I am very happy with them.

[7] I wonder what pressure gun-writers have on them when they write articles.  Most probably don't do 10mm articles because it is considered too small a market to write about regularly.  Jeff Cooper loved the 10mm, and that is all I need to meet my approval.

Cheers and regards, Zephyr!!

Grim Reaper,

Thank you for resisting the monetary lures of the large corporations, as they always make enough changes to try and "improve" something and making it crap, like the way Microsoft does to their operating systems.

Very appreciative, Sir!

RkyMtn10mm

Thanks for the article.  Always nice to read something about the 10mm.

Here is another I liked on the Nighthawk Custom Heinie 6" 10mm (in the running for my next 10mm, along with Fusion and possibly STI's Perfect 10): http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/GUNS/GUNS1012/

There is also a great story of Jeff Cooper doing a canoe trip in Mexico (if the movie Deliverance had been released prior to his journey, I wonder if he would have changed his mind on going.).  Mexico does not allow .45 caliber handguns, so Jeff used a 1911 in 10mm to great success.  His companion brought a S&W revolver, which had to be frequently disassembled and cleaned to keep it functional, where as Jeff's 1911 worked without a hitch through all the muck, dirt and water.  This story is in his book "Another Country", and, like all his other publications, a must read for handgun fans, and required for 1911 fans.  The other book he wrote with great wisdom and stories is "To Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth."  http://www.jeffcooperbooks.com

The 40S&W got in the way.  When loaded to +P rating, the 40S&W is right near the 10mm.

Then you have ammo price and availability.  When the average shooter goes to buy a gun, most shops and ranges don't have 10mm ammo in stock.  And when they do, it is significantly more expensive than 40S&W or 45ACP or 9mm.  So, 10mm is relegated to cult status.

Thanks to the internet, ammo is available and price is reasonable for the performance.  My 10mm's are relegated to second line self defense (I use a Ruger SP101 to get to my 10mm guns)

The 10mm has such great ability to cover most all situations one could need a gun for.

Quote from: Zephyr on August 26 2013 11:36:37 PM MDT
I just got wind of this forum from the Shadow yesterday.  So, I thought I'd take the plunge.  Seems like a lot of the old 10mm crowd are already here.  I migrated from another site, and a few members might know me from there.  I'm a long time 10mm shooter, and own them in the S&W revolver, and 1911 platforms [Dan Wesson, Kimber].  Thanks for allowing me to participate here.

You pressed the link, too, huh?!  Nice to see you here!

Does the long slide help to slow the recoil speed of the slide down?

Now that would help keep people's attention in those long NRA basic pistol classes! 

Quote from: The_Shadow on August 26 2013 10:20:03 AM MDT
It goes back to working inside a required amount of energy to do the job or adding or subtracting spring to compensate for the energy being used.  Delicate balance especially if a broad range of ammo impulse id being used!

I had a long conversation with my Bob Marvel trained gunsmith and I was amazed at how finicky some guns can be while other will digest just about anything you stuff into their chamber.  My gunsmith was working on an officer model 1911 and he put every kind of spring in it to try and get it to cycle properly, cutting small parts of springs off,....  Finally he modified the recoil system to use a Glock flat coil spring.  Bob Marvel incorporated it into his signature gun that Nighthawk Custom makes.

It really makes sense as to why the military has strict specs on their ammo.

Thank goodness most of my guns have been real cooperative!

At $3.50-$4 a gallon for gas, not too far.

Well, you get what you pay for.  The UMC is the DIRTIEST ammo I have ever shot.  I bought some and after one magazine, I sold the remaining box to a friend.

Quote from: The_Shadow on August 26 2013 07:29:55 PM MDT
Erik, welcome to the fun and experience here!  Sounds like you are already taken by the 10mm bug!  Enjoy the ride!

Yes indeed!  I have coverage of almost all calibers, but the 10mm is my go to in an emergency, as I have 26 loaded 10mm moon clips for the 610 and 10 magazines for the Eclipse.  I am NOT running out of ammo first!!!

Thanks for the welcome, Shadow!

Yes, Colorado has changed pretty fast in the 19 years I have been here.  The liberal CA folks have moved in and are taking over.  I don't think the apartment building owners have a leg to stand on in court with this, but I assume they are thinking of doing what they can to deflect any lawsuits that would come their way for a shooting incident in a building, since the shooter would likely not have any money or assets to fund the plaintiffs retirement.  It is a sad world that is coming to fruition in the US.  The kinds of litigation that are being put forth make it dangerous for anyone to do most anything, now.