Too soon for a group buy?

[sqlbullet]

I have been wanting a 200-205 grain six cavity mold for 10mm.  I am not super picky about bullet style, although I would probably favor a WFN/LFN, then a TC with a SWC in last place.

The idea would be for as many of us that want in to agree on a design, have Lee cut the molds and share the set-up fee across the group.  I would be willing to honcho the buy and front the costs.  In the unlikely event we get 30 in on the buy, Lee waives the set-up fee ($175) and we pay only the cost of the molds ($53).  There would be some shipping involved as well, which would just be pass along.

If you are interested, please let me know your preference on bullet design, and if there is a design that is a deal killer.  Also, comment on bevel base versus plain base.  I am not interested in a gas check design, so I am not asking about it. If that is what most want then the group can do that, but I wouldn't want one and am not going to honcho a buy on a mold I don't want

Any interest?


Updated June 22, 2012:

Below are the tables tracking preferences and the users who want in on the buy, as well as the calculated price each if we ordered today.  The final order will be based on the predominant desire of the group, not individual requests, so if a given design is a deal killer for you, make that known.

The current price each is exactly that:  How much each mold would cost based on the number of people currently participating.  One note.  I am assuming you each only want one mold.  If you are in for more than one, let me know.

Username	Bullet Style	Bullet Base
sqlbullet	WFN	PB
475/480	WFN	GC
DM1906	WFN	PB
The_Shadow	WFN	PB

Bullet Style

Style	Count
WFN	4
TC	0
SWC	0

Bullet Base

Base	Count
PB	3
BB	0
GC	1

Current Price Each:  $96.75 + shipping

[475/480]

Count me in 200gr +/- WFN sounds good. I would prefer a gascheck design but either way is OK. I think the castboolits group has a .410-200gr WFNPB design in the works.

Sean

[DM1906]

I might be interested.  I've considered this for a long time, but the cost held me back.

WFN (.290-.300), modest ogive radius, plain base, TL grooves (vs. single low groove), NO crimp groove. NO GC relief.

Justification:

   
• WFN, modest ogive radius, plain base:  Case capacity.  More volume up front is less in the case.  .290-.300" meplat is ideal.  Greater balance is greater stability at longer range.
• Ogive radius, maximum .300" meplat:  Accommodates full length (1.260") in Glock mags, and least interference with bore throat.  Maximized wound channel hydraulics vs. penetration.
• TL (tumble lube) grooves:  According to my extensive tests with .45 (ACP/LC full power), less/no leading.  The TL accommodates a similar volume of lube as with a deeper single groove, spread across a greater area of bearing surface.  Does NOT affect accuracy or velocity, in any way.  It's also better for the LLA users (not me).
• Otherwise, low single groove, to allow long (full 10mm length) seating in .40 cases.  Thanks to Yondering, of GT for that one.  It also moves the CG forward, which benefits stability/accuracy.
• No GC relief:  No 10mm (handgun) will push this slug fast enough to need or take advantage of a space-taking GC.  PBGC's are always an option, if they're necessary.

Yeah, I know.  Not asking for much.....

[475/480]

• No GC relief:  No 10mm (handgun) will push this slug fast enough to need or take advantage of a space-taking GC.  PBGC's are always an option, if they're necessary.

Yeah, I know.  Not asking for much.....
[/quote]
Just so there is no misuderstanding . The GC is not really needed because of velocity it is used (needed)  because as the PRESSURES increase the base of the bullet gets strained more.
  -That is why the old 45-70 BP load could push a cast bullet to 1500-1800 fps with no leading and the 454 Casull at the same velocity NEEDS a GC , the Casull is running 45,000-60 K PSI and the 45-70 BP load runs 22-27K  PSI.


Sean

[The_Shadow]

200 grain would be more to my liking, No SWC, Flat base to keep the bullet short as possible, one lube groove (easier in the Star sizer),  with a wider Meplat (0.30") but a rounded over edge like a TC profile but to help feeding and droping out of the mold.

[DM1906]

   
• No GC relief:  No 10mm (handgun) will push this slug fast enough to need or take advantage of a space-taking GC.  PBGC's are always an option, if they're necessary.

Yeah, I know.  Not asking for much.....

Just so there is no misuderstanding . The GC is not really needed because of velocity it is used (needed)  because as the PRESSURES increase the base of the bullet gets strained more.
  -That is why the old 45-70 BP load could push a cast bullet to 1500-1800 fps with no leading and the 454 Casull at the same velocity NEEDS a GC , the Casull is running 45,000-60 K PSI and the 45-70 BP load runs 22-27K  PSI.


Sean


I not only recover my brass, but I also recover most of my bullets (ultimately, to make more bullets).  Base liquification, vaporization, and/or distortion is only (rarely) present with powder that's too fast to get any realistic velocity.  Slow down your powder, slow down your bullet, and/or change the lube.  Same goes for the .454, or use a GC.  This is not a 45/70 BP, nor is it a .454.  Try some bear grease on a biscuit for your 45/70's.  They'll run cleaner, and maybe faster.  If your .454 is 6"+, try some R7.  Or not.

Nominal driving force @ 90% average peak (approximate):
.40 S&W - 3700 PSI
45/70 - 3900 PSI
10mm - 4200 PSI
.454 - 8600 PSI

FWIW

[sqlbullet]

A lot of it depends on the gun too.  Some guns really like lead, others not so much no matter what you do.  This is especially true with revolvers where you have to contend with cylinder throats as well as barrel groove diameter.

There is no doubt that if you hit plastic deformation then accuracy will suffer, and you may or may not get leading depending on other factors.

I know that several guys that just want gas checks on 357 Mag, 44 Mag, 10mm, etc.  J.D Jones is among them.

I have always had good luck without them and so I don't want the expense.  In fact, I am going to have a cheap Lee 200 grain 30 cal mold bored to plain base to try in my Garands with WC872.  Low pressure load as the man says!

Sounds like there is interest in the group by.  I will put together a spreadsheet and create a table in this thread to keep updated and we will see where we can get.  If you that are interested want to PM me with a top end price you are willing to pay, that will help me determine when we have enough in the group.

[DM1906]

Actually, if enough members insist on GC, it's better to order with.  It's easy enough to just ignore the relief, or ream it off.  With or without, I'm still in if the remaining specs are close enough.

I don't think you'll have too much difficulty getting 30 on board.  I'm not in a hurry, for myself.  Also, people like options, and a different mold option will likely get more on board from other boards.  That is, if you don't get bored, waiting for the other boards to get on board, before we can have them bored.