Underwood 124gr +P+ (Bonded / Speer GD) offerings or other for carry

[Kenk]

Hey Folks,
If you were to carry a 9mm, in my case, the XDm 4.5 9mm, would you have any reservations to stoke it with Underwood's 124gr +P+ (Bonded Jacked Speer GD's? Typically I carry my G30 with 230gr HST + P loads, or would you stick with HST's 124gr + P, Speer 124 + P, or other,which I have plenty. Lastly, my XDm 9  feeds all of the above without hesitation...Thoughts
Thanks

Ken

[Trapper6L]

The FBI has approved the Federal HST 147gr as carry ammo for their people. The bullet is said by the FBI to perform past their expectations at moderate velocities with controlled expansion and penetration. I've never shot a bullet heavier than 124gr out of any of the 9mms I own. I'm more of a velocity kinda guy and a 147gr bullet at around 1000'ps just doesn't set off any excitement for me. If I need a heavier bullet, I get out a pistol with a bigger hole in the barrel. I've got them from the 22's to hand cannons and yes, I carry at times a hand cannon. For 2 decades I carried a Contender Super 14 in a Bianche shoulder holster to give you an idea. So if you like a heavier bullet in the 9mm, I'd suggest researching it and chatting with people that actually shoot the ammo.
For your convenience
https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=0tGJXOzDPI-ytQWn8aWYAg&q=federal+9mm+147gr+hst&btnK=Google+Search&oq=federal+9mm+147gr+hst&gs_l=psy-ab.3..0l3j0i22i30l7.1945.11029..12048...0.0..0.185.2170.11j10......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0i131.Oc6Wq0CSffY

[Kenk]

Thanks Trapper, I guess my point was this, when it comes to Underwood's 124gr +P+ GD, is there any reason this would be a bad rd for carry, or would I be basically the same with Federal's HST 124gr / +P

[Trapper6L]

I'm sure this will ruffle a lot of feathers but I won't shoot a Gold Dot bullet for carry ammo and I won't load any for hunting either. I've had far too many complete failures of the bullet just whizzing thru an animal and not expanding to trust my life to one. I've dug out anything from a 45acp at +P loads, 40SW at peak velocities and the most commonly truck gun, a 9mm in either a High Power, Witness, or Kimber, where the bullets did absolutely nothing. I could have reloaded some of the 9mm and the shot was a finishing shot at near point blank range. You'd think there would be a lot of splatter power there but the GD sometimes fails as does the Remington 115gr HP in 9mm. Since coyotes are one of my brothers target animals(he is a paid trapper), I get to see a lot of things most will never experience in their lifetime. While Speer is one of my favorite rifle bullets, in my opinion of years in the brush, their pistol bullets AKA Gold Dots, suck. When they work as designed, they are equal to most any HP out there. When they fail, even a solid lead bullet seems to leave a far larger wound channel. The HSTs, no failures so far but I've maybe run 2000 of them thru the pistols so that might change. Another one that stands out for me are the Lehigh bullets. No failures and every animal hit goes down. But jeez they are expensive even as a component.
I know a lot of folks carry the Gold Dots and swear by them. But these same people seemingly have only killed paper at the range with them and no volume of experience. Shooting a couple of animals doesn't qualify to me as any experience at all. When you come on a rabid coyote in a snare that you have to get fairly close to get a shot on one, drop the hammer on what should be a killing shot and the thing turns and is coming to you. That's when you know if a bullet works or not. You won't find any Gold Dots in the closet as a reloading component at my place. Now rifle bullets, there isn't a better varmint bullet than the TNT series. I shoot them out of a 6mm Remington and the 308s. Absolutely devastating bullet.

[Kenk]

Thanks Trapper!

[Rojo27]

Since you asked for opinions I'll share mine.

I personally wouldn't recommend the Underwood 124gr +P+ Gold Dot....
I think you flirting with likelihood of over driving the bullet, over expansion
and under penetration.  Your carrying a full sized gun, little gained possibly
a lot lost by overdriving the Gold Dot in my opinion.

We ain't talking about the old BPLE....  which would come apart but still
barely hit the 12" mark (ordenence gel) most of the time.  Gold dot ain't
breaking up much if any.  Now I understand a number of police forces utilize
the 9mm  Speer 124gr +P version (New York City as an example) in service
pistols and are very pleased with it's performance.  Just question the need for
+P+ to get the job done with Gold Dot. 

I carry a 9mm on occasion.  4" or better barrel it's stoked with 147gr Ranger T
or 147gr HST...  Micro 9 pistol: 124gr +p HST or recently 135gr Federal
Hydashok Deep....

[Kenk]

Thanks guys, will likely stick with the HST 124gr, or 124 + P in my 9's

Ken

[Kenk]

Morning folks,
At this point, I have switched over my 9mm carry ammo to Federal's 124gr HST + P, as I have always liked the HST. Because I have several boxes of Underwood's bonded 124gr + P + on hand, I wanted to get Underwood's perspective on this rd's, as to possible under expansion, as well as over penetration. Below is the reply from Underwood

Good morning Kenneth,
In regards to your question about our bonded 124gr + P + possibly over penetrating and under expanding. We've pulled an average of 14-15" of penetration with expansion typically ranging from .70"-.75".
With the standard 4 layers of denim test, we have not found a single hollow point on the market today that offers proper results 10 out of 10 times. Gold Dots (our Bonded JHP), Nosler JHPs, and XTPs do very very well and that's why we load these, but even these hollow points may fail to expand 1 or 2 times out of 10 tests using 4 layers of denim. Even the Hornady Critical Duty and similar rubber plugged hollow points don't always work properly 10 out of 10 times.  Gold Dots of various calibers have a very long history with law enforcement and is still trusted nationwide today.
This discussion is why we're very adamant about the non-expanding Xtreme Defender series. It simply cannot fail because it does not act as a mechanical object with moving pieces/parts such as hollow points.
Here's an excellent video for you to check out. TNOutdoors9 is a very non-biased reviewer, I think it's a great video to watch because he is a completely neutral third party that shows very similar results to our in-house tests.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcrsOyAa0gY&t=

Underwood Technicians

[Rojo27]

Ken,
I'd be more leary of over expansion and under penetration with a Gold Dot 124gr
9mm pushed +P+ ranges from duty sized pistol. 

Regards

[Kenk]

Absolutely, Thanks Rojo!

[Overkill338]

I'm attaching a pic of a 124 grain GD into water jugs, from a 357 SIG. It's the one on the DT box.

I like +P+, and a lot of people say it's hard on the gun. But its no harder on the gun than 357 sig is on pistols chambered for it.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[Kenk]

Thanks man!