new source of brass

[Pinsnscrews]

Another Group Buy to get a run done now? 

[sqlbullet]

We should ask them.

Although it appears they have no intention of selling direct to consumer.  Personally, I think that is a marketing mistake of epic proportions in today's age.

[The_Shadow]

I hate when there are so many middlemen, tacking on their own cost and shipping and handling, adding to the total cost of products...

I guess we will see should they put their product out for consumer uses.

[sqlbullet]

yeah.  I worked retail in music right after I got married 20+ years ago.  I was amazed how cheap some things were if you bought in qty from the factory.

I have learned that in traditional retail the guy who made it usually original sold it to the first distribution channel for about 20%-30% of the marked prices.

Thanks to direct to consumer marketing, most notably by Dell computer in the 90's, and then by the internet, a lot of that is gone now.  The jobs have moved to the shipping industry, and the consumer has benefitted greatly.  Hopefully JAG will offer a direct to consumer option, and if they go through outlets like Midway, etc, the retailer margin will hopefully be small, like a 20 mark.

[gandog56]

Another Group Buy to get a run done now? 

I could see that in the future if their prices are good and they would give a volume discount.

[10milguy]

I got 1000 pieces sent to me after SHOT last year. It is not bad stuff. I may be looking to part with it soon though. There is a rumor.....and I can't say if it is true or not..... that they are making brass for Nosler. I haven't been able to find powder for the longest time so all I have loaded them up with is Clays. So I can't really give them a solid review right now. Someone with more time and powder may be able to do that better.



~10MG

[gandog56]

Yeah? Send some my way. I have Unique, Blue Dot, HP38, 800X. Heck maybe try some Red Dot in them.

[sqlbullet]

What did you have to do to get them to send you 1K pieces?  There are lots of things I would do for 1000 of the brass of the ONLY MM

[10milguy]

What did you have to do to get them to send you 1K pieces?  There are lots of things I would do for 1000 of the brass of the ONLY MM

Right place at the right time. I said I was looking for brass because everyone was out. The guy took my info. About a month later a box randomly showed up full of brass. So not only did I get my hands on 1000 pieces of virgin brass.....It was free. 

But my stock Gen 3 20SF chamber sucks so I need a new barrel (Stormlake, KKM, LWD) to make use of this box of awesome.

-10MG

[The_Shadow]

You must have talked to the guy that promised to send me a sample for testing...this was way back around that time frame.  May be they forgot about my request...

I had written them about testing and some of the reused brass that I was testing was holding up well in some high pressured test.  Oh well I never got the sample to test with, but I have sent them several letters about selling their brass as components for another great option. 

edited to add;
Well I went back into my e-mails and found my original to Jagemann dated 06/05/2013 01:16:24 PM---Jagemann Tech Contact Form Response

Me to Jagemann;

Subject
JAG 10mm Brass
Comments
Hello, I have obtained some of the Jag 10mm brass and studied it after the cartridge has been shot. I must say I am impressed so far with the quality and workmanship. I am in the process of re using your product via my own handloading. I will be putting some loads together to equal the upper limits of performance and this will be my best judgment of this brass' performance from a re-loaders' stand point. While this testing will push the product to known limits, I remain confident that it will provide good service. I will write a report back after I test the ones I have.

It would be nice to have more of the Jag Brass as new vs. used to test even more in the real world performance. Maybe you could send me a small sample to work with...that would be some real help.

I hope that someday you will offer your products for sale to those of us who handload our own cartridges, for our performance needs.

Thanks and best regards,

Scott Bitter back to me Tuesday, June 11, 2013 11:39 AM;

Wade,

Pleased to meet you...... I appreciate you saying the kind things about our brass. I do not have any 10mm brass with JAG head-stamp that I can send to you currently. About 95% of all we do has the manufacturers head-stamp, and I would not be at liberty to forward that. I will keep you in mind here, and if I can get a JAG run through late this year..... I will get some to you. There will be a day when things get back to normal a bit, and we then plan on having reloading brass available through retail channels. But for now we are doing all we can to handle the ammo manufacturers.

Best regards,

Scott Bitter
Product and Key Account Manager
Jagemann Technologies
Office Phone: 920-684-2625
Cell Phone : 920-860-5040
Fax: 920-683-5793
skbitter@jagemann.com
Visit our Website at www.jagemanntech.com

My response with data from testing;

Scott Bitter, Thank you for your response.  I look forward to the company's products being available as components in the future.

Here are the results of some Selway  180gr JHP commercial loads that ran at 1154 fps as fired in 3 different 10mm guns.
These were some I received to study from an acquaintance; those chambers are some of the tighter ones.
JAG Brass Expansion
0.4315"
0.4310"
0.4250"
0.4310"
0.4300"
0.4250"
0.4315"
0.4315"
The same load as Tested in my 10mm S&W 1006 5" 1154 fps June 8, 2013
Case expanded to 0.4260", primer rounded but did have the wipe, cases look good.

Being able to further test from the Glock Guns with their looser chambers will provide further expansion data as most of their chambers are 0.4340" and allow the brass to expand even more.  But the key to the test is will we see the dreaded "Glock Smile" if the brass starts to flow at the feed ramp area as seen from loads from Double Tap, Underwood, and some that are no longer in business like SwampFox.
The commercial loading that was used in these was somewhat medium loads.  There are companies (like those mentioned above) that take the 180's to 1300+ fps and the 200's 1250+ fps.
I have since reconditioned these once shot brass and am reloading them to higher values to test their endurance as shot at higher pressures that duplicate the 180gr @ 1300 & 200 @ 1250.
These will be done with several different powders at what I consider top loads with 200 grain Hornady XTP bullets @ 1200 to 1250 fps performance levels.
This will provide a good test to observe the stress which will be placed on the once fired and reconditioned JAG brass sample I obtained from commercial loaded ammo.
If you don't mind, I will forward the results I see from the testing from the top loads in those few here!

Thanks for keeping me in mind for some new brass samples for further testing! Best regards,

I had only wished they would have provide me with some of their new brass to further test the product.  Yes I have found it to be a great product and my mission still remains to try and get them to sell the brass as components.  It seems they will someday, but if they sell through other dealers and they add their cost and S/H it may sour the price point to negate sales.

They would have to be competitive like that of Star Line with direct sales to customers...so we will have to see how it plays out! 

[BT8850]

Well, this is a tad off from 10mm JAG brass but I noticed a listing here in PA that cought my attention - a fellow selling NEW unprimed JAG 300AAC brass. If he has new brass with a JAG head stamp (disregard caliber for this example) how do you think he may have gotten ahold of it? Maybe they already started component sales of certain calibers through some distributors? I believe I'll send the guy an email . . . Thoughts??

http://www.armslist.com/posts/3445052/pittsburgh-pennsylvania-reloading-for-sale--new-factory-300-aac-blackout-brass

[Pinsnscrews]

That is an add for a Distributor who is already Bulk ordering from JAG. We are looking at being able to skip the middleman and order direct from JAG, but they may be able to provide a list of distributors if they have started their 10mm runs.

[BT8850]

That is an add for a Distributor who is already Bulk ordering from JAG. We are looking at being able to skip the middleman and order direct from JAG, but they may be able to provide a list of distributors if they have started their 10mm runs.

that's what I figured I would get back but his reply was almost even more confusing . . .

This is what I sent him;

While perusing Armslist this morning I stumbled upon your ad for NEW 300BLK brass from JAG and it is very interesting to me because I was unaware JAG brass was available for purchase at a component level. While I load and shoot 300 blackout, I also load 10mm and a few of my fellow 10mm Auto enthusiasts have been speculating about when/if JAG will begin selling 10mm brass on a component level, either direct to us customers or through some sort of third party distributing.

So my question for you is this, are you (Blacksmith Armory) a distributor for JAG? Do you have any insight on how they are planning on going about their future component (any caliber) sales to customers?

I genuinely look forward to your reply and am grateful of any information you can provide.

Thanks in advance!

Brad

and his reponse ;

Sorry, I can't help much. We are not a distributor for them and can't offer any insight into their business plans; we have no interaction with them at all. We simply buy 300blk in bulk and split it up into smaller quantities for retail sale. 

I guess I can't blame him(them) for being vague about it, I probably wouldn't want to give up my sources either

[Pinsnscrews]

Not necessarily. It is possible he is purchasing his bulk brass through another distributor who is a JAG distributor. That is something I have noticed regarding .223/5.56 and 300BLK, some people are moving it in such a high volume that they are buying from other distributors at a penny discount to what they are selling it at. So if they are selling it at .05 per round, they are buying it at .04 or .045 per round. When you are dealing in 100,000 rounds, that is $1000.