Today's cars

[crockett]

Let's talk about modern cars, and pickups.

I am a car guy, always have been. Once I own a vehicle, it will never see a dealership or shop again. I do all the maintenance, repairs, modifications, and even recalls.

I have so little trust in dealerships that I rather order the recalled parts, pay for them and install them on my time, then risking that the dealership will screw something up, or try to screw me over.

For the longest time I would buy new vehicles at steep discounts in a buyers market, nationwide, keep them for 1 to 4 years, and sell them at break-even point, usually in a sellers market.

This way I haven't "paid" for a vehicle in at least 15 years.

That being said, cars and trucks have become increasingly complex, and this fact adds more parts to the list that can and will fail eventually.

Also, with the inflation of the past years, vehicles have become MUCH more expensive. Even a big discount will not balance the price increases out, and who knows if we will have a proper sellers market again.

At this point I'm losing interest in owning and driving nice and new cars or trucks, due to these factors:

- good deals are harder to find
- quality is going down because brands are cutting corners for higher profit margins
- complexity and failures are going up due to EPA regulations and new / more tech
- repairs on complex vehicles take longer and cost more in parts
- modern vehicles are designed to break after the warranty period runs out
- I hate worrying about where I park my vehicles and seeing dings and scratches from strangers on my vehicles

I'm getting tired of feeding this greed ridden industry. I'm tired of playing the back-office games at dealerships.

Consequently I'm considering to sell all my nice vehicles, never buy a new one again, keep my old beater minivan camper, buy another one from the same year for around 2 grand, and be done with this entire chapter.

Owning 2 old minivans will allow me to always have one in running condition. I can borrow parts between them if needed. Somebody puts another scratch on it, on the supermarket parking lot? Who cares? I won't even realize it.

I know this model year extremely well due to all the work I have done, hence repairs are easy and quick. Parts are plenty and very cheap. A new radiator costs $70. New brake pads all around are only $45. Oil change cost me $19, with filter.

My desire to spend 50k or more on a new car, or 90k on a nice truck, is gone.

I own a sports car that goes 190 MPH and reaches 60 in below 3 seconds but I can't make use of that anywhere. Traffic has become horrible around here and the next race track is 4 hours away. That diesel pickup can pull a house, but I don't even own a 5th wheel trailer.

On the other hand, my minivan camper allows me to do everything I want, even stay over night at the beach, or pick up anything needed for my house and yard.

How do you guys feel about new cars and trucks, how much they cost these days, how likley they will have complex issues past the warranty? Are you still willing to keep running in this hamster-wheel of wasted money?

[Kenk]

Evening Crockett, My skillset is more in the pc world, but my son-in-law is a mechanic, which is fine for my 2011 Ford Edge. As for my wife's new Edge, not nearly so much. I felt it important that she has something reliable, but with that comes a crazy price tag. Yes, I dislike spending that kind of money, but feel better that she's in a relatively safe vehicle that is less likely to just quit. We also know a skilled mechanic that is also our friend that has a large shop on his farm. He is substantially cheaper than the dealership and we trust him, so it works out pretty all around.

[The_Shadow]

Well I too usually do my own maintenance for my vehicles.  In fact, the two I have, a 2000 Chevy Impala 3.8L and a GMC 2002 Diesel 6.6L 3/4 ton 4x4 crew cab.

The Impala needs a new battery at the moment and some TLC...
Some things I have a good local mechanic that does some things, and I OK with his work.

I really don't see me purchasing a new vehicle anytime soon if I can keep these going.
However, I'm at the age where I will be required to take money out of my portfolio's so if the right deal presents itself I might buy another vehicle because mine are older.

[crockett]

Looks like the key is finding a trustworthy mechanic - if one doesn't want to do all the work.

Glad to see that you guys are not buying into the newest tech all the time, like so many do.

I guess I'm evolving after all. I came from a point in life where I spent most of my income on lifestyle. But what once made me happy, turned into shackles. And then its gotten to a point where my stuff owns me.

Time to get rid of the overhead and make things simple again. These days I don't mind wrenching on a car, at all. But throwing money out of the window does get old.

A set of new rear tires on my fast car is $1100. And that's just one example. I have been pushing this thing hard for over 20k miles - that engine won't last 200k miles, heck not even 50k.

Time to adjust. Now ya'll can call me an old, grumpy, man. 

[Kenk]

We were fortunate with my wife's vehicle having only 24,000 miles on it. It knocked the price down significantly, but was still a ton of money

[crockett]

We were fortunate with my wife's vehicle having only 24,000 miles on it. It knocked the price down significantly, but was still a ton of money

In 2019 I bought a new 2018 RAM 1500 single cab, long bed, HEMI, 4WD, lockable diff, for 27k out the door. The sticker price was 41k. It was sitting on the lot for 9 month and the dealership was desperate. Found it online, asked for signed buyers order via email so they won't pull any stunts on me when I show up, flew in early 2 states up North and drove it back home the same day.

While I managed to sell it in 2023 for the same 27k, this pile of Stelantis garbage had the HEMI lifter tick from day one. I managed to make it go away with expensive and thin motor oil, that had MUCH more additives in it.

The new owner will get to hear the lifter tick again, once he switches back to cheaper oil, and then I give it 30k miles until the lobes on the cam are down, and the bearings down South are shot.

Before that, I owned a 2016 C7 Corvette, that ate through 1 quart of oil every 900 miles, from day one. Had to sue GM in order to force them to buy it back. My 2018 GMC Sierra 2500 Denali Duramax had the chassis-bound death wobble that they couldn't get rid off. Sold it one year later for what I paid due to a 12k discount.

Those are the examples why I'm done with modern vehicles. Way to expensive for the drama they cause.

If I'd ever buy a new car again, it would be either the new Prius Prime or the Sienna.

I owned a 2023 Toyota Corolla Hybrid for 1.5 years and put over 30k miles on it. Flawless, and I saw up to 61 MPG with hypermiling. 30 dollars of gas got me 600 miles. But I will never again buy a new GM or Stelantis product.

[sqlbullet]

I have never owned a "new" car in my life.  Used every single time.  The closest I have come was in spring 2012 when I picked up a 2011 suburban that was the "backup" vehicle to a car service in LV.  Only driven when another vehicle was "down" and only driven buy professional chauffeurs who were being paid to provide a luxury ride around Las Vegas.  It only had a touch over 3K miles and I got it at a steep discount.  Still have that vehicle, drove it to the cabin Wednesday night.

But, I am a bit of a car-hound.  My current stable inlcudes:
  2015 Mercedes GLK 250 Bluetech (85K)
  2011 Chevrolet Suburban LT (140K)
  2008 BMW X5 4.8 (180K)
  2001 Land Rover Discovery II LE7 (170K) - paid $400 for this one
 
Also at my house but owned by children:
  2009 Hyundai Sonata GLE (90k)
  1995 Ford Bronco XLT 5.0 (150K)
  1993 Ford Bronco XLT 5.8 (160K)

I let a trusted (as much as you can) stealership do any warranty work on the vehicles.  The M-B still has 4 more years on the diesel-gate updates.  Other than that I do all my own wrenching on cars.  And I am currently a bit behind.  The MB is due an oil change that I will get to next week.  The BMW needs a transmission and transfer case service, and I need to address the front prop shaft with an upgraded unit due to age.  And it has a few leaking gaskets that I should address, and I need to inspect the rod bearings for it's 200K inspection.

As you can see from the mileages, high miles don't worry me.  I keep on top of routine maintenance, get oil analysis and usually expect 300-400K miles from a pushrod V8 - after which I can do the rebuild for another 250 K miles.  But that X5 engine will be an adventure if I need to rebuilt it.  DOHC, VVT, all kinds of special tools.

My wife is starting to get a bit antsy for something a little newer than 10 years. But the current car market doesn't really excite me in any way.

[crockett]

I have never owned a "new" car in my life.  Used every single time.  The closest I have come was in spring 2012 when I picked up a 2011 suburban that was the "backup" vehicle to a car service in LV.  Only driven when another vehicle was "down" and only driven buy professional chauffeurs who were being paid to provide a luxury ride around Las Vegas.  It only had a touch over 3K miles and I got it at a steep discount.  Still have that vehicle, drove it to the cabin Wednesday night.

But, I am a bit of a car-hound.  My current stable inlcudes:
  2015 Mercedes GLK 250 Bluetech (85K)
  2011 Chevrolet Suburban LT (140K)
  2008 BMW X5 4.8 (180K)
  2001 Land Rover Discovery II LE7 (170K) - paid $400 for this one
 
Also at my house but owned by children:
  2009 Hyundai Sonata GLE (90k)
  1995 Ford Bronco XLT 5.0 (150K)
  1993 Ford Bronco XLT 5.8 (160K)

I let a trusted (as much as you can) stealership do any warranty work on the vehicles.  The M-B still has 4 more years on the diesel-gate updates.  Other than that I do all my own wrenching on cars.  And I am currently a bit behind.  The MB is due an oil change that I will get to next week.  The BMW needs a transmission and transfer case service, and I need to address the front prop shaft with an upgraded unit due to age.  And it has a few leaking gaskets that I should address, and I need to inspect the rod bearings for it's 200K inspection.

As you can see from the mileages, high miles don't worry me.  I keep on top of routine maintenance, get oil analysis and usually expect 300-400K miles from a pushrod V8 - after which I can do the rebuild for another 250 K miles.  But that X5 engine will be an adventure if I need to rebuilt it.  DOHC, VVT, all kinds of special tools.

My wife is starting to get a bit antsy for something a little newer than 10 years. But the current car market doesn't really excite me in any way.

You probably saved a fortune by never buying a new car.

When I grew up, I couldn't afford a new car at all, heck not even a nice used car. For a couple decades I was stuck with VW's or an old Honda, worth between a couple hundred bucks and 1500 max.

Once I made a decent income, I wanted to catch up and bought nice, new vehicles, at full MSRP.

I spent some time online window shopping the current market in recent days, because much like you, I didn't see anything exciting for a while.

Well, I found out that no brand makes a "perfect" car or truck anymore. They are all packed with compromises, making it really hard to make a decision.

Minivans for instance:

- The Honda is lacking any hybrid options, the model is super old and the tech is lacking.

- In the Toyota you can't remove the middle row seats anymore, they only offer a 4 banger with hybrid that is under-powdered, and a CVT doesn't match the high price. You can't walk from the driver seat to the back anymore - you have to exit the vehicle.

- The Chrysler looks good and offers options, but lacks reliability and Stelantis can't be trusted anymore at this point.

Why can't any of them build a minivan with all those features?

- V6 hybrid that still has  enough power, but with a little better MPG
- a proper transmission and not a CVT
- removable seats or at least the Stow-N-Go cubbies for the middle and rear row
- New tech but no massive middle console that prevents you from walking to the back
- AWD as an option

Same issues with pickups.

[John A.]

I, like the majority of Americans, hate (loathe) newer vehicles that have sensors and other electronic bullshit all over them.

Someone spills a soft drink in the right rear floorboard from a drive thru and there's a sensor somewhere in the car that is transmitting that to the factory to let them know how many seconds it took to wipe it up off the floor.  Tracking your every movement.  Everywhere you go.  How fast you accelerate.  If your tires ever spin or lose traction.  If you used your turn signal or not.  Sensors that watch your face/eyes to see if you're "distracted".   And "sharing" the info with outside "sources".  Or, in other words, law enforcement and every ad agency that pays them to pirate your info.

That's not even related to how the cars are designed.  Most older cars I started working on in the 70's (many including older 50's and 60's models), just about anybody could work on them.  And did. 

Now, you have to take half the car apart to change a wheel bearing that is built into the the A-arm assembly.  Drop the whole engine out from underneath the frame to change a starter.  The shit that engineers do is beyond retarded.

I'd rather buy a dozen "antique" cars as buy 1 new one. 

I hate new cars.

If a car or truck manufacturer made a vehicle without all the electronic crap, I'd probably buy one.  Until then, I'll never buy a new vehicle as long as I live.  I'm getting old so that may not be much longer, but if anyone really knew me, you'd know I'm being serious and mean every word of what I say.

[crockett]

I, like the majority of Americans, hate (loathe) newer vehicles that have sensors and other electronic bullshit all over them.

Someone spills a soft drink in the right rear floorboard from a drive thru and there's a sensor somewhere in the car that is transmitting that to the factory to let them know how many seconds it took to wipe it up off the floor.  Tracking your every movement.  Everywhere you go.  How fast you accelerate.  If your tires ever spin or lose traction.  If you used your turn signal or not.  Sensors that watch your face/eyes to see if you're "distracted".   And "sharing" the info with outside "sources".  Or, in other words, law enforcement and every ad agency that pays them to pirate your info.

That's not even related to how the cars are designed.  Most older cars I started working on in the 70's (many including older 50's and 60's models), just about anybody could work on them.  And did. 

Now, you have to take half the car apart to change a wheel bearing that is built into the the A-arm assembly.  Drop the whole engine out from underneath the frame to change a starter.  The shit that engineers do is beyond retarded.

I'd rather buy a dozen "antique" cars as buy 1 new one. 

I hate new cars.

If a car or truck manufacturer made a vehicle without all the electronic crap, I'd probably buy one.  Until then, I'll never buy a new vehicle as long as I live.  I'm getting old so that may not be much longer, but if anyone really knew me, you'd know I'm being serious and mean every word of what I say.

I remove the GSM / WiFi / Bluetooth module out of every vehicle I own. No more data sending / selling to anyone.

There's a reason why my insurance didn't go up even though I push my Vette hard.

GM just settled on a FTC case for sharing driving metrics to insurance companies. Not with me! Even if they build all that into the main computer, I will always be able to disable or remove any sending activity, even on a PCB level, thanks to my background in electronics and coding.


https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2025/01/ftc-takes-action-against-general-motors-sharing-drivers-precise-location-driving-behavior-data

[John A.]

I don't worry so much about bluetooth myself because I made the decision that I don't want a cell phone.  So, I don't have to worry as much about that.

But if you could tell me how to disable all that other crap on my 2014 toyota corrola, I'm all ears.

I don't think it's just government motors that are doing the tracking stuff.  I know for sure that ford has even recently gotten patents for some of how they are doing that junk.

example:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-patent-details-vehicles-detect-152010965.html?

(for the record, even that link above was full of tracking junk that I removed prior to posting).

And they want to listen to in car conversations as well.

https://www.climatedepot.com/2024/09/19/ford-files-patent-to-spy-on-drivers-ford-wants-to-listen-to-your-in-car-conversations/

[crockett]

I don't worry so much about bluetooth myself because I made the decision that I don't want a cell phone.  So, I don't have to worry as much about that.

But if you could tell me how to disable all that other crap on my 2014 toyota corrola, I'm all ears.

I don't think it's just government motors that are doing the tracking stuff.  I know for sure that ford has even recently gotten patents for some of how they are doing that junk.

example:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/ford-patent-details-vehicles-detect-152010965.html?

(for the record, even that link above was full of tracking junk that I removed prior to posting).

And they want to listen to in car conversations as well.

https://www.climatedepot.com/2024/09/19/ford-files-patent-to-spy-on-drivers-ford-wants-to-listen-to-your-in-car-conversations/

The real issue is GSM, not BT or Wifi. As far as I know, the 2014 Toyota Corolla does not have a built-in GSM system or antenna.

As long as you don't hook up the car to the hotspot on your phone, there won't be any data sharing.

[10 Round]

WTF what's with all the paranoia who gives a rat's ass I'm half dead already

[crockett]

WTF what's with all the paranoia who gives a rat's ass I'm half dead already

Ignorance is bliss. For some at least.

[10 Round]

No paranoia is ignorance let's get back to firearms and ammo