Anyone see this shot fired video?

[Intercooler]

   The guy in the yellow shirt ducked under the table pretty quick! It's crazy how quick things happen sometimes.

[sqlbullet]

Wow.

As usual, so much fail all around.

The best action here would have been to call a recess to the meeting, and then have security detain this clearly unstable man as the room cleared.  Since he was farthest from the door and in a good seat he wanted to be able to film, they could have removed bystanders before escalating the encounter.

[Intercooler]

 True! Do you feel he should have fired in that situation?

[The_Shadow]

That wasn't a place to use a firearm on an unarmed person especially with two security guards, they could have held the dude and cuffed him.  Too easy for innocent people to have gotten shot...

But I will say that the Governments no longer work for the people but for themselves bleeding the very communities they are supposed to serve!

[Intercooler]

   Let's say the shot killed this looney... what would the verdict have been in Court?

[The_Shadow]

Probably excessive force by the guard and assault and battery by the old dude!

[sqlbullet]

The violent attack and failure to obey commands, as much as it pains me to say, probably put the SO in the position of a "clean" shoot.  That said, this never should have escalated.

This is too often the case in the use of deadly force.  It becomes a clean shoot because lack of "verbal judo" skills escalates a situation that never should have escalated.  In this case they are dealing with a man that is agitated with local government, and has in the past been VERY agitated by security "putting hands" on him.

So the idiot walks into a crowded room, and does the very thing that riles this guy up.

[4949shooter]

I know the heading at the end says it was intentional, but I am not convinced.

The security guard had no reason pulling his gun in that situation though.

[DM1906]

I know the heading at the end says it was intentional, but I am not convinced.

The security guard had no reason pulling his gun in that situation though.

My thoughts, the same. Old dude armed with a camera. Not a shoot situation. Intent was determined at the draw, so intent isn't an issue. In any case, a bad situation, all around. Lose-lose.

[Patriot]

I think it's a good shoot, but a bad shot. You can't miss at that distance. But if you're getting punched repeatedly in the head, grabbed, etc. and you feel you are not going to be able to stop the attack, by all means do what you have to do. The guy is a whimp for getting his ass kicked by an elderly skinny guy, but who knows this guys background? I read somewhere that he was a former Marine? If that's true he could kill someone easy even at his age. He sure looked like he knew how to fight.

[tommac919]

IMO, uncalled for....
A perfect situ where you could have had people exit the room and then talked this guy down ( while more help comes ).
Also if you got a gun in security, why not expanding baton or pepper spray  . (I've taken down guys 3x larger than him with the pepper( it's nasty ))... was always taught the pain given out goes in escalated steps as needed , don't just jump to the top.

[macc283]

The problem is the person hiring the security guards. The guards are not receiving the ryt kind of training.

[Patriot]

The problem is the person hiring the security guards. The guards are not receiving the ryt kind of training.

That's correct, and the reason why the guard did nothing wrong here. They receive little to no training in hand to hand techniques. Most companies give little training in verbal techniques. The guard did what most people would have done under similar conditions if they were carrying a firearm. He was getting punched in the head repeatedly, backed against a wall. Under those same circumstances I might have used my gun as well. We can't hold a security guard to the same standards as police.

Let me put it this way. I received more training in a 9 week military police academy than I have in 10 years working in the private security industry. My 9 weeks of military police training has elevated me above the people I work with at every company that I've ever worked for, and I've always been put into management positions. The average security officer is just a regular Joe that is basically a bouncer with a uniform or observe and report.

[DM1906]

The problem I see here is, are the "guards" only private security? Or are they sworn peace officers? If only private security, they have no more lawful authority than the citizen, other than possession of firearms on that public property. The "guard" escalated the level of force the moment he attempted to seize the camera, then assaulted the citizen (lawful or otherwise) by pulling on the lanyard around his neck. If the guard had no right to seize the camera (I doubt he did), then the assault resulted in a lawful like-response. The camera was not evidence to be seized (at that time), nor was it perceived as a weapon. The entire incident was managed very poorly by the security personnel, start to finish. The guard's (or a peace officer's, for that matter) level of training shall never determine the reasonableness of a response by a subject. The guard initiated the physical level of contact, and further escalated that level up to and including deadly force. This was a public meeting, in a public place. As far as I could see/hear in the video, Skidmore was not advised of any law violation that may allow the guards to detain him, or attempt to seize any of his property. Ultimately, this ended in a citizen's arrest and detention of a subject for, apparently, undisclosed probable cause. The guard that drew and fired his weapon may likely be facing ADW, and likely would have been charged with at least manslaughter if he had shot and killed him.

Where did the bullet go?

[Patriot]

The problem I see here is, are the "guards" only private security? Or are they sworn peace officers? If only private security, they have no more lawful authority than the citizen, other than possession of firearms on that public property. The "guard" escalated the level of force the moment he attempted to seize the camera, then assaulted the citizen (lawful or otherwise) by pulling on the lanyard around his neck. If the guard had no right to seize the camera (I doubt he did), then the assault resulted in a lawful like-response. The camera was not evidence to be seized (at that time), nor was it perceived as a weapon. The entire incident was managed very poorly by the security personnel, start to finish. The guard's (or a peace officer's, for that matter) level of training shall never determine the reasonableness of a response by a subject. The guard initiated the physical level of contact, and further escalated that level up to and including deadly force. This was a public meeting, in a public place. As far as I could see/hear in the video, Skidmore was not advised of any law violation that may allow the guards to detain him, or attempt to seize any of his property. Ultimately, this ended in a citizen's arrest and detention of a subject for, apparently, undisclosed probable cause. The guard that drew and fired his weapon may likely be facing ADW, and likely would have been charged with at least manslaughter if he had shot and killed him.

Where did the bullet go?

I believe you missed one important piece of information. The guy touched the woman. After he touched her, that other woman walked out and grabbed security to have him removed. The security guard came in with the intent to remove the guy. The camera, although not a "weapon" can become a weapon and would be the first thing taken away. The security guard was doing his job. Removing a threat. Bouncers do it all the time. There is no law that says they can't touch people. Although I think the public is under that assumption. I get it all the time when I stop a shoplifter. "You can't touch me, I know the law." Then when they try to walk away with the stolen merchandise they get put into handcuffs using whatever force necessary.