Favorite BE-86 / 200gr Gold Dot loads

[Kenk]

What are you all finding when loading up 200gr Gold dots with BE-86 as far as the ideal charge weight? My hope is to not only achieve great accuracy, but also something in the 1,200 - 1,250 FPS range
Thanks

Ken

[The_Shadow]

KenK, I tested 8.4 grains of BE-86 from my 1006, but I actually dropped the charge down to 8.3 grains to put it right at 1200 fps +/-

March 21, 2019 Well today was a testing day:  S&W 1006 5" using Speer 200 grain Gold Dot over 8.4 grains of BE-86, OAL was 1.2550", Brass was Federal Nickle (used), my goal was to achieve 1200 fps...  My first test shot 1231 fps, second test shot 1227 fps, so I met my goal.  Brass looked good and primers slightly flatten.  Case expansion was 0.4280".

[Kenk]

Thanks Shadow, how was the accuracy with the 8.4gr's?


Ken

[The_Shadow]

Didn't really shot for accuracy, but I did hit the bullseye while shooting over the chronograph!   

[greentick]

Very timely! Thanks Shadow! Gives me a ballpark for the 500 200gr Nosler JHPs I bought a few years ago. I picked up a bunch of "MP165" (supposed BE86 equivalent) from American Reloading during the fat times and am currently filling up my 10mm brass.

[The_Shadow]

Greentick be sure to test the results as that powder could be slightly different! 

Please post a picture of the MP165 powder in a scale pan (good close up)

[Muskrat]

E-gads... there's no published load data for BE-86 and 200 grain bullets, and no published data stating that MP165 is "equivalent " to BE-86.

...BOOM...

[Popapi]

Shadow you like BE-86 in this case over LongShot?

[The_Shadow]

Shadow you like BE-86 in this case over LongShot?

BE-86 has flash suppressed properties, I wasn't going for the highest velocity.  Was leaning toward cleaner burning, less to no flash & accuracy for self defense.

[Kenk]

If it wasn't for the flash, I would likely stick with BD, however after working with BE-86 some, I've become pretty fond of it

[sqlbullet]

E-gads... there's no published load data for BE-86 and 200 grain bullets, and no published data stating that MP165 is "equivalent " to BE-86.

...BOOM...

It is worth noting that there is published data for a 190 gr. JHP:  7.6 grains for 1182 fps.

Extrapolating from 165 grain data (8.7 for 1327) and the 180 grain data (8.2 for 1265)  I would guess that Alliant would land around 6.8-6.9 grains with an 1100 fps max velocity.  Their data was all loaded 1.250" and velocity was from a 5" barrel.

Shadow has many years experience handloading, and his case head expansion certainly seems to indicate his data is OK in his 1006.  I would not expect that to be the case in my Para P-16-40 which is known to have case head support issues.  Anyone wanting to duplicate this 200 grain gold dot load should probably start with 6.5 grains and work up slowly using both a chronograph and micrometer.

[Muskrat]

Yes, I don't doubt Shadow's skills or methodology. I suppose what makes me nervous is the idea that you can take an experimental load of BE-86 and then transfer that information over to another powder entirely. That I do somewhat doubt.

I'm not an expert on reloading, and I don't know how much of a safety factor powder manufactures build into their loading tables. I'm still really puzzled why Alliant doesn't support the 200 grain bullet with BE-86, and why, if they did, their max load would extrapolate out to 6.9 grains, while folks are loading 8.4 grains without pressure signs. That's quite a difference.

I'm not saying that people who are shooting those loads are doing anything wrong, but why did Alliant stop so early if much heavier loads are safe?

It's all theoretical to me...I can't get BE-86 locally, and I don't have any need for a flash suppressed powder anyway. But it is a curiosity.

[sqlbullet]

...
I'm still really puzzled why Alliant doesn't support the 200 grain bullet with BE-86, and why, if they did, their max load would extrapolate out to 6.9 grains, while folks are loading 8.4 grains without pressure signs. That's quite a difference.

I'm not saying that people who are shooting those loads are doing anything wrong, but why did Alliant stop so early if much heavier loads are safe?

I would bet that the 8.4 grain load is well over max pressure for 10mm.  The 1006 is a tank with excellent steel and excellent case head support, as well as excellent lockup.  Without pressure test data, we don't know though.

[Muskrat]

  "Without pressure test data, we don't know though."

Ya...that's sort of my hang-up. I'm guessing Alliant has the pressure test data, and they stopped way short of throwing a 200 grain pill @ 1250 fps.

Pull-downs have shown that exceeding published data is nothing new...it just seems like the BE-86 data is being overridden somewhat more enthusiastically than other powders. Maybe that's just my impression.

On a different tangent, in my limited and unscientific testing the 200 grain gold dot has very exaggerated expansion when pushed to 1200 fps. Since the only logical reason for using the 200 grain vs the 180 or 165 grain GD is penetration, I'd think about sticking closer to 1050 or 1100 fps. That's what Speer loads their commercial round to, and I suppose they tested a few velocities before settling there.

People want velocity, but it can work against you. After extensive testing, the LEO-restricted .40's my sheriff's office issued threw a 180 grain bullet @ 950 fps, and they were extremely effective. They eventually switched to a different bullet, but still stayed below 1000 fps, even though much higher velocities are attainable.

[greentick]

Greentick be sure to test the results as that powder could be slightly different! 

Please post a picture of the MP165 powder in a scale pan (good close up)

Shadow: will do when I get a chance.

Everyone else: Many thanks for the concern and warning. I. Will. Be. Careful! (seriously, I will. I work in an ER, have seen several different user headspace-and-timing gun related issues. Do not want to join that crowd.)

I used the BE86 data as a starting point for 180FMJs, dropped a grain from max, and worked up at 0.2gr intervals. Happy with results, somewhat less of a wallop than Longshot but not chrony'd so that's just subjective speculation.

(BTW, the avatar pic was longshot, not MP165. Not sure how heat sensitive LS is but I was shooting on a hot day w once fired brass and a circa 1991 G20 w the original factory bbl)