A final word on Grand Power pistols and it's not good!

DM1906 · December 17 2015 12:44:13 PM MST

If they're worried about barrel issues, after fixing the issue, then they haven't fixed the issue. Just doesn't make sense to me, other than they just don't have an interest in actually entertaining the idea. Talk is cheap.

will965 · December 17 2015 05:30:47 PM MST

Quote from: sqlbullet on December 17 2015 08:05:31 AM MST
IC nailed it. The full size needed mag springs in the old red follower mags. The new black follower mags, no changes needed. The ones you read about are because lots of us like to tinker, not because we had reliability issues.

Both my Witness 10mm hang with my Glock 20 and 29 for reliability. And they handle lead better.

That's great to hear..... I love the match and it just moved up tyop of the list!!! Thanks

Captain O · December 17 2015 05:42:17 PM MST

IMHO, the 10mm isn't served well by pistol barrels shorter than 4.5" in length. Shorter tubes result in unburned propellant, lower velocities and increased muzzle blast. None of these enhance either my shooting pleasure, or the piece's accuracy. (No need to say the 10mm short-bareled revolver isn't my cup of tea).

Let's face it, the 4.5" barrel surrenders nearly an inch to the cartridge case, leaving 3.5" of rifling. The 10mm Auto is best served by longer pistol (not revolver) barrels. While the cartridge has a "quick pressure peak", a longer slide/barrel (7-8") tends to make a long slide/barrel unwieldly. It may tame recoil, but such handguns are difficult to tote in a holster.

I truly enjoy my 6.5" barreled S&W Model 610 revolver. When you take barrel/cylinder gap into consideration, the velocity can reach those of a 7" barreled autoloader. Extensive testing with the original "full house" load from Norma FFV Amotfors conclude that an autoloading pistol with an 8" barrel is needed to harness all the power generated from both the Norma 170 and 200 grain loads.

Portability and pointability are important, but control, accuracy and power are why we are devotees of the cartridge.

sqlbullet · December 18 2015 08:07:53 AM MST

I think the 10mm is ideal for a shorter pistol. Here is why.

FBI protocol external ballistics is the minimum I want to carry for personal defense. That means a .400" 180 grain JHP bullet at 950 fps at the muzzle. And the 10mm delivers this in amazingly short barrels. In fact, down to 2" according to testing by Ballistics by the Inch, using the Winchester Silvertip factory load or ammo in the Buffalo Bore/Underwood class.

That is why I think it should be discounted in short barreled guns. It helps make up for the short barrel.

Intercooler · December 18 2015 08:49:29 AM MST

The P40L is 5".

Captain O · December 18 2015 06:21:49 PM MST

Quote from: sqlbullet on December 18 2015 08:07:53 AM MST
I think the 10mm is ideal for a shorter pistol. Here is why.

FBI protocol external ballistics is the minimum I want to carry for personal defense. That means a .400" 180 grain JHP bullet at 950 fps at the muzzle. And the 10mm delivers this in amazingly short barrels. In fact, down to 2" according to testing by Ballistics by the Inch, using the Winchester Silvertip factory load or ammo in the Buffalo Bore/Underwood class.

That is why I think it should be discounted in short barreled guns. It helps make up for the short barrel.

If this is the case, the .40 S&W would never have been developed. In know that the FBI's "smaller agents" (read women and dwarfs) couldn't handle the larger grip-frame of the 10mm Auto. The .40 S&W works well in shorter barrels due to the cartridge's shorter case.

Intercooler · December 22 2015 01:24:39 AM MST

I pick it up this evening. I will throw up some barrel comparison pictures tonight. Anyone have a picture or measurement request?

sqlbullet · December 22 2015 08:10:43 AM MST

Quote from: Captain O on December 18 2015 06:21:49 PM MST
Quote from: sqlbullet on December 18 2015 08:07:53 AM MST
I think the 10mm is ideal for a shorter pistol. Here is why.

FBI protocol external ballistics is the minimum I want to carry for personal defense. That means a .400" 180 grain JHP bullet at 950 fps at the muzzle. And the 10mm delivers this in amazingly short barrels. In fact, down to 2" according to testing by Ballistics by the Inch, using the Winchester Silvertip factory load or ammo in the Buffalo Bore/Underwood class.

That is why I think it should be discounted in short barreled guns. It helps make up for the short barrel.

If this is the case, the .40 S&W would never have been developed. In know that the FBI's "smaller agents" (read women and dwarfs) couldn't handle the larger grip-frame of the 10mm Auto. The .40 S&W works well in shorter barrels due to the cartridge's shorter case.

I see I am quoted here, but I can't connect the dots on what you are saying about my statements.

Captain O · December 23 2015 07:57:25 PM MST

Could the CZ-97 be altered (e.g. heavier slide, slightly heavier recoil and main springs) to balance out the increased recoil impulse of the 10mm Auto cartridge? I can't think of a more efficient platform for the "Mighty 10".

It seems to be the next logical step.

Captain O

sqlbullet · December 23 2015 08:43:00 PM MST

http://10mm-firearms.com/10mm-semi-auto-handguns/10mm-cz-97b/

Someone did a conversion. I don't see anything it offers over a Witness Elite gun.

Intercooler · December 24 2015 06:24:03 PM MST

Here is my range report from today's first trials:

http://10mm-firearms.com/range-reports/first-time-grand-power-k100-9mm/msg52507/#new

It doesn't appear to handle high impulse rounds well. In looking at the Chrony numbers the gas seal is suffering as well dropping velocities (possibly fouling and causing the malfunctions). The highest octane stuff I tried this time out was NATO, no +P/+P+ and from what I'm seeing the 10mm ammos will magnify it.
I will tear it down for a good cleaning and try nothing but Perfecta 115gr FMJ fodder the next time out. I would like to see it go several hundred rounds without a single issue though.